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| The Dumb GOP | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 4 2008, 06:29 PM (954 Views) | |
| Jeffrey | Oct 5 2008, 07:04 AM Post #51 |
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Senior Carp
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Replace "snobbery" with "insight". |
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| Phlebas | Oct 5 2008, 07:16 AM Post #52 |
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Bull-Carp
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Because William F. Buckley isn't around anymore. |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| Larry | Oct 5 2008, 07:44 AM Post #53 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Now why would I do that when it's not insight but snobbery? |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| JoeB | Oct 5 2008, 09:18 AM Post #54 |
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Senior Carp
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It's interesting that you put the belief in human caused global warming in the same class as the belief in a 'round' Earth (I presume you DO know it's spherical). The fact that that earth is spherical is easily demonstrated by any number of methods. The 'fact' that global warming is occurring is based on various statistical analyses which are open to both misinterpretation and abuse. If, in fact, we have embarked on an actual global warming runaway caused by carbon dioxide, then we had better get ready to ride out the result. If it is happening it is already too late to stop it. The oil, coal, and natural gas will be burned and sequestration is a silly hoax. All the cap and trade or carbon neutrality stuff is feel-good bs. We hope this is not the case, and we may believe it is or isn't but the evidence we base our belief on is not self-evident. So we move to religion when we base our beliefs on what somebody else tells us without being able to independently verify the facts. The man made global warming hypothesis meets this criteria when we accept the word of High Priest Gore and ignore inconvenient facts that contradict the hypothesis. This does not mean it's not true, but it is unproven, and more likely than not, untrue. |
| "There are many ingredients in the stew of annoyance." - Bucky Katt | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 5 2008, 09:21 AM Post #55 |
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Cheers
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Joe, why do you say sequestration is a silly hoax? I asked AC about that and he said (paraphrasing) that is a proven technology used for tertiary recovery in oil fields. Are you saying the CO2 will eventually seep into the atmosphere anyway? |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| JoeB | Oct 5 2008, 09:36 AM Post #56 |
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Senior Carp
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There are 2 reasons I say it is a hoax. First, the combination of the capital cost and increased fuel usage (25% higher) will increase the costs of electricity by 30-60%. Source Second, there is danger involved in large scale storage of liquified CO2 in geologic formations. This needs to be a permanant solution (like in forever permament), worse than the storage of radioactive waste. With billions of tons of CO2 stored a massive release (earthquake, bad design, or ??) could kill a whole bunch of people. I say it's a hoax because the coal people may sell it as a solution, but I would bet the equipment won't be used. Clean coal? There's a real oxymoron for you. |
| "There are many ingredients in the stew of annoyance." - Bucky Katt | |
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| QuirtEvans | Oct 5 2008, 10:32 AM Post #57 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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I see you ducking the question of where the line is between science and religion. Every great scientific advancement in history was by someone who put together a theory, believed it, and set out to prove it. Putting that aside, though ... because I recognize that you don't really want to respond to the question of where the line is between religion and science, since it shreds your preconceived notions ... we need to introduce the concept of "opportunity cost" here. If you wait until something is proven to be 100% certain, beyond any shadow of a doubt, you lose opportunities for action. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| JoeB | Oct 5 2008, 11:08 AM Post #58 |
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Senior Carp
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You have left out the hypothesis step altogether. You put together a hypothesis and design tests to prove or disprove it. A good scientist comes with a strong sense of skepticism, and tries to formulate alternative hypotheses, testing them as well. From Wiki: Source. So we may be able to promote human caused global warming to a 'theory' if we accept that the theory is, in principle, testable at some undetermined point in the future. Belief plays a part in this process only insofar as the scientist believes that the theory may, in fact, be correct. Not that it IS correct. If the 'scientist' believes the theory IS correct, he will accept any evidence that bolsters his belief, and ignore evidence that refutes his belief. History is littered with scientists who have fallen into this hole (eugenics, Lysenkoism, etc., etc., etc.).
My basic preconceived notion is that people make mistakes and scientists are people. The idea of religion (based on unprovable, but accepted beliefs) directly applies to the concept of man made global warming. The beliefs, while they may eventually be provable, are not proven. Stating that man made global warming is 'true' based on unproven beliefs moves the people who accept the theory as fact into the religious camp. Insofar as "opportunity cost" goes, the proper actions to take to slow down man made global warming are logical and should be taken whether or not the theory is, in fact, correct. Reducing the use of fossil fuels by solar, wind, nuclear, and renewable fuels is logical. Releasing finely divided sulphur into the upper atmosphere to increase solar reflectance is just plain crazy without proof positive it wouldn't make a lot of things worse. Carbon credit trading, sequestration, etc. are just ways for scammers to get rich off well meaning people and would have no effect whatsoever on the eventual results except insofar as they give people a false sense of having done something useful. |
| "There are many ingredients in the stew of annoyance." - Bucky Katt | |
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| kenny | Oct 5 2008, 11:10 AM Post #59 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Whom are you quoting? |
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| JoeB | Oct 5 2008, 11:15 AM Post #60 |
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Senior Carp
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Quirt. I wish this board could automatically attribute quotes since evidence indicates I am too lazy to do it.
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| "There are many ingredients in the stew of annoyance." - Bucky Katt | |
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| QuirtEvans | Oct 5 2008, 11:22 AM Post #61 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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As in everything, Joe, it's a spectrum, it's not either/or. Many scientists fervently believe their theories, and go to great lengths to prove them, but are willing to accept contrary evidence and adapt. Others are not. But to say that "f the 'scientist' believes the theory IS correct, he will accept any evidence that bolsters his belief, and ignore evidence that refutes his belief," is just plain silly, and is likewise contradicted by plenty of historical evidence. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Jolly | Oct 5 2008, 11:49 AM Post #62 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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WaPo ain't far off. The base is not wild about McCain, never has been. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Rainman | Oct 5 2008, 11:54 AM Post #63 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Funny, I recall an almost instantaneous reaction after the debate on the inaccuracy of many of Biden's "facts." |
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