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McCain to go fiercely negative; say insiders.
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Topic Started: Oct 4 2008, 04:03 PM (555 Views)
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jon-nyc
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Oct 4 2008, 04:03 PM
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What a pathetic figure he's turned in to. He'll lose the election and his reputation.
This is an interesting quote:
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There's no question that we have to change the subject here.
At least we see a truthful admission that they can't win on the issues.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ml?hpid=topnews
Hat tip, Teachum.
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In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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ivorythumper
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Oct 4 2008, 04:08 PM
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I didn't see the word "negative" used once in that article. Did you just make that up?
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The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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Oct 4 2008, 04:09 PM
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Palin started today, accusing Obama of consorting with terrorists with that little smirk of hers.
Bad decision. Bad, bad decision. I had high hopes McCain was not going to run the Rove playbook. If he plays scorched earth now, he won't be able to play the bipartisan game later.
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It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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Oct 4 2008, 04:12 PM
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I dunno -- if he focuses strategically on Obama and not on the Democrats that would not effect the bipartisan issue. He already has a fairly decent track record behind him for that.
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The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Kincaid
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Oct 4 2008, 04:13 PM
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The truth needs to be told. Sorry it's negative.
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Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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apple
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Oct 4 2008, 04:14 PM
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don't count it.
all his dirty tricks have failed so far. it'll just make him look grumpy.
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it behooves me to behold
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ivorythumper
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Oct 4 2008, 04:14 PM
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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- Kincaid
- Oct 4 2008, 05:13 PM
The truth needs to be told. Sorry it's negative.
It's only negative for those whose political aspirations are adversely affected.
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The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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Oct 4 2008, 04:20 PM
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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- Kincaid
- Oct 4 2008, 07:13 PM
The truth needs to be told. Sorry it's negative.
It isn't the truth, and what's coming won't be the truth either.
It also isn't what McCain promised he'd do.
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It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Ben
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Oct 4 2008, 04:21 PM
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I don't know how well "going negative" will go over with undecideds, but doggone it, there are a heck of a lot of negative things about Obama that haven't yet been widely publicized and need to be, in my opinion.
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- Ben
"Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington
bennieloohoo@gmail.com Or you can just PM me.
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Jack Frost
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Oct 4 2008, 04:23 PM
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- jon-nyc
- Oct 4 2008, 07:03 PM
What a pathetic figure he's turned in to. He'll lose the election and his reputation. .
Indeed.
Pathetic.
jf
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Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations.
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Jack Frost
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Oct 4 2008, 04:23 PM
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- QuirtEvans
- Oct 4 2008, 07:20 PM
- Kincaid
- Oct 4 2008, 07:13 PM
The truth needs to be told. Sorry it's negative.
It isn't the truth, and what's coming won't be the truth either. It also isn't what McCain promised he'd do.
But it's what he's gonna do because he is losing.
jf
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- Quote:
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Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations.
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George K
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Oct 4 2008, 04:23 PM
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Don't worry, folks, you have the Associated Press running interference for him:
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Obama, who was a child when the group was active, has denounced Ayers' radical views and activities.
While it is known that Obama and Ayers live in the same Chicago neighborhood, served on a charity board together and had a fleeting political connection, it's a stretch of any reading of the public record to say the pair ever palled around. And it's simply wrong to suggest that they were associated while Ayers was committing terrorist acts.
This qualifies as "news?"
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greg
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Oct 4 2008, 04:26 PM
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It's the truth, so I'd say it qualifies. I guess you're used to the "left-wing media" giving due deference to all manner of ridiculous lies?
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"What do you think it is, stupid? It's a string for my lute."
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apple
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Oct 4 2008, 04:29 PM
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Ben,
they've been publicized. and publicized and publicized.
every week they try to re-present the iffy Ayers connection.. emails arrive in my box suggesting the antiChrist is Obama. much of the public can read and have read serious articles refuting the ridiculous claims propulgated by the republican party and reach conclusions that are founded and logical.
These are extraordinarily troubled times and i really feel that the majority of voters will take their responsibilities seriously.
Do you personally believe the negative distortions or do you hope to believe them?
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it behooves me to behold
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George K
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Oct 4 2008, 04:34 PM
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"It is simply wrong" is an opinion, not a fact. It should be disclosed as such.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.
I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18
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Jolly
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Oct 4 2008, 04:36 PM
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- jon-nyc
- Oct 4 2008, 06:03 PM
What a pathetic figure he's turned in to. He'll lose the election and his reputation. This is an interesting quote: - Quote:
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There's no question that we have to change the subject here.
At least we see a truthful admission that they can't win on the issues. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ml?hpid=topnewsHat tip, Teachum.
I'm from the Lee Atwater / James Carville school of politics (both are Southern boys, and know how to do politics).
Nuke 'em 'till he glows, and then shoot 'im in the dark.
If you drive his negative up, you've got a shot....and as Al Davis once said about football, which applies well to politics, "Win, baby, win".
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The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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apple
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Oct 4 2008, 04:39 PM
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why would you want that in the white house?
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it behooves me to behold
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kathyk
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Oct 4 2008, 04:39 PM
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- apple
- Oct 4 2008, 04:29 PM
Ben,
they've been publicized, and publicized and publicized.
every week they try to re-present the iffy Ayers connection.. emails arrive in my box suggesting the antiChrist is Obama. much of the public can read and have read serious articles refuting the ridiculous claims propulgated by the republican party and reach conclusions that are founded and logical.
These are extraordinarily troubled times and i really feel that the majority of voters will take their responsibilities seriously.
Do you personally believe the negative distortions or do you hope to believe them?
I'll say they have (been publicized). All you have to do is Google the allegation (which ever one you're interested in). Read what the flagrant , wingnut, Obama smear sites have to say and then go read the mainstream media accounts. You don't even have to bother going to the left wing blogs or the pro-Obama sites. That's pretty much all you have to do to put the fear mongering rumors to rest.
That's my homework assignment for you Ben.
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Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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QuirtEvans
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Oct 4 2008, 04:41 PM
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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There's another saying: "Win the battle, but lose the war."
If that one doesn't ring a bell, this one might:
“What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?”
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It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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George K
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Oct 4 2008, 04:47 PM
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- kathyk
- Oct 4 2008, 07:39 PM
- apple
- Oct 4 2008, 04:29 PM
Ben,
they've been publicized. and publicized and publicized.
every week they try to re-present the iffy Ayers connection.. emails arrive in my box suggesting the antiChrist is Obama. much of the public can read and have read serious articles refuting the ridiculous claims propulgated by the republican party and reach conclusions that are founded and logical.
These are extraordinarily troubled times and i really feel that the majority of voters will take their responsibilities seriously.
Do you personally believe the negative distortions or do you hope to believe them?
I'll say they have. All you have to do is Google the allegation (which ever one you're interested in). Read what the flagrant , wingnut, Obama smear sites have to say and then go read the mainstream media accounts. You don't even have to bother going to the left wing blogs or the pro-Obama sites. That's pretty much all you have to do to put the fear mongering rumors to rest. That's my homework assignment for you Ben.
Here you go Ben:
The NYT Whitewash
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[Stanley Kurtz] As others have noted, today’s New York Times carries a story on the relationship between Barack Obama and unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist, Bill Ayers. The piece serves as a platform for the Obama campaign and Obama’s friends and allies. Obama’s spokesman and supporters’ names are named and their versions of events are presented in detail, with quotes. Yet the article makes no serious attempt to present the views of Obama critics who have worked to uncover the true nature of the relationship. That makes this piece irresponsible journalism, and an obvious effort by the former paper of record to protect Obama from the coming McCain onslaught. The title of the article when it first appeared on the web last night was, "Obama Had Met Ayers, but the Two Are Not Close." That was quickly changed to, "Obama and the ‘60's Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths." Perhaps the first headline made the paper’s agenda a bit too obvious. Even so, the new title simply parrots the line of Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt that the two first met through an early "education project" and since have simply "encountered each other occasionally in public life or in the neighborhood." Or, as New York Times reporter Scott Shane puts it at the head of his article, since an initial lunchtime meeting in 1995, "their paths have crossed sporadically...at a coffee Mr. Ayers hosted for Mr. Obama’s first run for office, on the schools project (i.e. the Chicago Annenberg Challenge) and a charitable board, and in casual encounters as Hyde Park neighbors." There is nothing "sporadic" about Barack Obama delivering hundreds of thousands of dollars over a period of many years to fund Bill Ayers’ radical education projects, not to mention many millions more to benefit Ayers’ radical education allies. We are talking about a substantial and lengthy working relationship here, one that does not depend on the quality of personal friendship or number of hours spent in the same room together (although the article greatly underestimates that as well). Shane’s article buys the spin on Ayers’ supposed rehabilitation offered by the Obama campaign and Ayers’ supporters in Chicago. In this view, whatever Ayers did in the 1960's has somehow been redeemed by Ayers’ later turn to education work. As the Times quotes Mayor Daley saying, "People make mistakes. You judge a person by his whole life." The trouble with this is that Ayers doesn’t view his terrorism as a mistake. How can he be forgiven when he’s not repentant? Nor does Ayers see his education work as a repudiation of his early radicalism. On the contrary, Ayers sees his education work as carrying on his radicalism in a new guise. The point of Ayers’ education theory is that the United States is a fundamentally racist and oppressive nation. Students, Ayers believes, ought to be encouraged to resist this oppression. Obama was funding Ayers’ "small schools" project, built around this philosophy. Ayers’ radicalism isn’t something in the past. It’s something to which Obama gave moral and financial support as an adult. So when Shane says that Obama has never expressed sympathy for Ayers’ radicalism, he’s flat wrong. Obama’s funded it. Obama was perfectly aware of Ayers’ radical views, since he read and publically endorsed, without qualification, Ayers’ book on juvenile crime. That book is quite radical, expressing doubts about whether we ought to have a prison system at all, comparing America to South Africa’s apartheid system, and contemptuously dismissing the idea of the United States as a kind or just country. Shane mentions the book endorsement, yet says nothing about the book’s actual content. Nor does Shane mention the panel about Ayers’ book, on which Obama spoke as part of a joint Ayers-Obama effort to sink the 1998 Illinois juvenile crime bill. Again, we have unmistakable evidence of a substantial political working relationship. (I’ve described it in detail here in "Barack Obama’s Lost Years." The Times article purports to resolve the matter of Ayers’ possible involvement in Obama’s choice to head the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, yet in no way does so. Clearly, the article sides with those who claim that Ayers was not involved. Yet the piece has no credibility because it simply refuses to present the arguments of those who say that Ayers almost surely had a significant role in Obama’s final choice. Steve Diamond has made a powerful case that, whoever first suggested Obama’s name, Ayers must surely have had a major role in his final selection. Diamond has now revealed that the Times consulted him extensively for this article and has seen his important documentary evidence. Yet we get no inkling in the piece of Diamond’s key points, or the documents that back it up. (I’ve made a similar argument myself, based largely on my viewing of many of the same documents presented by Diamond.) How can an article that gives only one side of the story be fair? Instead of offering both sides of the argument and letting readers decide, the Times simply spoon-feeds its readers the Obama camp line. The Times also ignores the fact that I’ve published a detailed statement from the Obama camp on the relationship between Ayers and Obama at the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. (See " Obama's Challenge.") Maybe that’s because attention to that statement would force them to acknowledge and report on my detailed reply. Shane’s story also omits any mention of the fact that access to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge records was blocked. What’s more, thanks to a University of Chicago law student’s Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, we now know that access to the documents was blocked by an old Obama associate, Ken Rolling, on the day I first tried to see them. And as a result of my own FOIA, we also have evidence that Rolling may have been less than fully forthcoming on the question of Ayers’ possible role in elevating Obama to board chair at Anneberg. In fact, Rolling seems to have been withholding information from a New York Times reporter. I’ve made this material public in a piece called, "Founding Brothers." How could a responsible article on the topic of Obama, Ayers, and the Chicago Annenberg Challenge ignore the story of the blocked library access and the results of the two FOIA requests? How could a responsible paper fail to aggressively follow up on the questions raised by those requests, and by the documents and analysis presented by Steve Diamond? Most remarkably of all, Shane seems to paper over the results of his own questioning. On the one hand, toward the end of the piece we read: "Since 2002, there is little public evidence of their relationship." And it’s no wonder, says Shane, since Ayers was caught expressing no regret for his own past terrorism in an article published on September 11, 2001. Yet earlier in Shane’s article we learn that, according to Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt, Obama and Ayers "have not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Mr. Obama began serving in the United States Senate in January 2005." Very interesting. Obama’s own spokesman has just left open the possibility that there has indeed been phone and e-mail contact between the two men between 2002 and 2004, well after Ayers’ infamous conduct on 9/11. Yet instead of pursuing this opening, Shane ignores the findings of his own investigation and covers for Obama. The New York Times in the tank for Obama? You bet. And sinking deeper every day.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.
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Jolly
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Oct 4 2008, 04:47 PM
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- QuirtEvans
- Oct 4 2008, 06:41 PM
There's another saying: "Win the battle, but lose the war."
If that one doesn't ring a bell, this one might:
“What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?”
How about separation of Church and State? Besides, politics carries too much of a whiff of brimstone to be God's work.
And that stuff about winning the battle, etc.? Politics ain't beanbag and like a gunfight, there is no second place winner. If you don't win, you cannot change anything, and change is what politics is all about.
As long as what the McCain camp uses is not fictitious, I have no problem with it. Obama will do the same thing....
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The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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QuirtEvans
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Oct 4 2008, 04:50 PM
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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- Jolly
- Oct 4 2008, 07:47 PM
- QuirtEvans
- Oct 4 2008, 06:41 PM
There's another saying: "Win the battle, but lose the war."
If that one doesn't ring a bell, this one might:
“What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?”
How about separation of Church and State? Besides, politics carries too much of a whiff of brimstone to be God's work. And that stuff about winning the battle, etc.? Politics ain't beanbag and like a gunfight, there is no second place winner. If you don't win, you cannot change anything, and change is what politics is all about. As long as what the McCain camp uses is not fictitious, I have no problem with it. Obama will do the same thing....
There's no separation of church and state within your own head. In other words, neither you nor John McCain can claim that what you do in the realm of politics has nothing to do with your mortal soul. That way lies the Spanish Inquisition.
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It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Larry
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Oct 4 2008, 04:55 PM
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Ben has used his brain and understands more than you ever will, Kathy.
As for going negative, Obama started doing that a long time ago. About time he got some of it handed back to him. And yes, there's plenty of bad stuff about Obama to talk about.
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe
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George K
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Oct 4 2008, 05:00 PM
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- kathyk
- Oct 4 2008, 07:39 PM
Read what the flagrant , wingnut, Obama smear sites have to say and then go read the mainstream media accounts. You don't even have to bother going to the left wing blogs or the pro-Obama sites. That's pretty much all you have to do to put the fear mongering rumors to rest.
Mainstream Media = Leftwing blogs.
How about Politico, from February of this year?
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Former radical activist Bernardine Dohrn and her companion William Ayers leave court in Chicago on Jan. 14, 1981. Dohrn received a $1,500 fine and three years probation for her role in the 'Days of Rage' disturbance in Chicago in 1969.
In 1995, State Senator Alice Palmer introduced her chosen successor, Barack Obama, to a few of the district’s influential liberals at the home of two well known figures on the local left: William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn.
While Ayers and Dohrn may be thought of in Hyde Park as local activists, they’re better known nationally as two of the most notorious — and unrepentant — figures from the violent fringe of the 1960s anti-war movement.
Now, as Obama runs for president, what two guests recall as an unremarkable gathering on the road to a minor elected office stands as a symbol of how swiftly he has risen from a man in the Hyde Park left to one closing in fast on the Democratic nomination for president.
“I can remember being one of a small group of people who came to Bill Ayers’ house to learn that Alice Palmer was stepping down from the senate and running for Congress,” said Dr. Quentin Young, a prominent Chicago physician and advocate for single-payer health care, of the informal gathering at the home of Ayers and his wife, Dohrn. “[Palmer] identified [Obama] as her successor.”
Obama and Palmer “were both there,” he said.
Obama’s connections to Ayers and Dorhn have been noted in some fleeting news coverage in the past. But the visit by Obama to their home — part of a campaign courtship — reflects more extensive interaction than has been previously reported.
Neither Ayers nor the Obama campaign would describe the relationship between the two men. Dr. Young described Obama and Ayers as “friends,” but there’s no evidence their relationship is more than the casual friendship of two men who occupy overlapping Chicago political circles and who served together on the board of a Chicago foundation.
"Some guy in my neighborhood. Our kids go to the same school."
Right.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.
I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18
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jon-nyc
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Oct 4 2008, 05:06 PM
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- ivorythumper
- Oct 4 2008, 08:08 PM
I didn't see the word "negative" used once in that article. Did you just make that up?
No, I read the first sentence of the article.
What do you think 'fiercer strategy' means - he's going to fiercely promote his healthcare plan?
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In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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