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Palin's Tax Returns
Topic Started: Oct 3 2008, 02:37 PM (870 Views)
jon-nyc
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Daniel
Oct 4 2008, 08:40 AM
Middle class income for a family of 7 including a special needs child *would* be over $100,000 imo. I would think $100,000 would be scrapping by (i.e. just living, no college funds, etc.)

Its worth noting that in 2006 they did not have a special needs child.

I also think that one input into the decision of how many children to have should be the couple's ability to support them. I guess I'm conservative in that regard.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
There's no delicate way to tell you this jon ...

if you want a lower tax rate,

you just have to raise children. ^_^
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CTPianotech
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Fulla-Carp
Just keep in mind that the bulk of their deductions aren't permanent. Those kids become adults some day...

For better or worse, Bush has taken millions of us of families off the federal tax rolls entirely. Below around $58K a family of 6 pays $0 in, yet still gets a "refund"

Makes me wonder what the heck Barak Obama is talking about when he says every family in America except the wealthiest 5% will get a $1,000 tax cut. Does he mean an additional $1,000 check from the feds on top of the 'subsidy' they're getting??

Maybe I should be reconsidering my vote? :D
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
Oct 4 2008, 04:50 AM
CTPianotech
Oct 4 2008, 08:27 AM
Without any other deductions, a family of 6 doesn't pay any federal income taxes until about $60,000 per year.

Yeah, which is why I think they've been cut too far. Broadly speaking, we have a situation where the middle class pay for social security and the well off pay for everything else.

I'll stand by my post as edited.

As to this comment, you're speaking gibberish. Middle class people pay federal, state, SS, and Medicare taxes, and have deductions for 401k plans (that are a joke compared to defined benefit pension plans of the previous generation) and deductions for employee contribution to (expensive) health care coverage.

The middle class is not just paying for SS.

You try living on a state median household income (I don't have a better definition of middle class) with 40% of your income deducted.

Let me know how well that works out for you and get back to me about how the wealthy are paying for everything except SS. It's simply not true.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Obama's tax plan cuts the tax for household making $125k or lower even more.

CTPianotech, see below:

Posted Image

Source: http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/econo...s_tpc/index.htm
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jon-nyc
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CTPianotech
Oct 4 2008, 08:59 AM
Makes me wonder what the heck Barak Obama is talking about when he says every family in America except the wealthiest 5% will get a $1,000 tax cut. Does he mean an additional $1,000 check from the feds on top of the 'subsidy' they're getting??

Maybe I should be reconsidering my vote? :D

He wants to rebate their payroll tax (FICA).

I'm against it, by the way. Although I'm happy to see the limit raised on higher incomes to have the 100k+ crowd make SS actuarily whole.


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jon-nyc
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Daniel
Oct 4 2008, 09:02 AM
jon-nyc
Oct 4 2008, 04:50 AM
CTPianotech
Oct 4 2008, 08:27 AM
Without any other deductions, a family of 6 doesn't pay any federal income taxes until about $60,000 per year.

Yeah, which is why I think they've been cut too far. Broadly speaking, we have a situation where the middle class pay for social security and the well off pay for everything else.

I'll stand by my post as edited.

As to this comment, you're speaking gibberish. Middle class people pay federal, state, SS, and Medicare taxes, and have deductions for 401k plans (that are a joke compared to defined benefit pension plans of the previous generation) and deductions for employee contribution to (expensive) health care coverage.

Just because you didn't understand it doesn't mean it was gibberish.


I didn't mean that middle class people don't pay income tax. They do. ANd rich people pay FICA, for that matter. On an individual basis, rich people pay more in FICA than most middle class people.


But there are a lot more middle class people than there are rich people. THerefore, in aggregate, the vast majority of the funding of social security comes from the middle class.

On the income tax side, there are fewer well off people but they have a much higher tax rate. If you look at the statistics, the majority of income taxes are paid by people making over 200k a year.


So, when I said 'broadly speaking' I meant in aggregate, not at the level of the individual taxpayer.
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CTPianotech
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Fulla-Carp
That's an interesting chart Ax. Unfortunately, I can't find a description of what they consider to be an 'average' taxpayer in each group.

Does this chart assume single with no dependents?

It also still doesn't answer my question Barak Obama's promise of at least $1000 to every family apply to those families that not only pay no 'tax', but already received a "refund" on money they never paid in?
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jon-nyc
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Daniel
Oct 4 2008, 09:02 AM
You try living on a state median household income ...

No thanks. I made the conscious decision not to do that, and willingly undertook the effort - and lifestyle tradeoffs - necessary to give effect to my decision.
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jon-nyc
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CTPianotech
Oct 4 2008, 09:14 AM
It also still doesn't answer my question Barak Obama's promise of at least $1000 to every family apply to those families that not only pay no 'tax', but already received a "refund" on money they never paid in?

I answered that above. He wants to refund their FICA.
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CTPianotech
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yeah, see that now, cross posted :)
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JBryan
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It seems we haven't accomplished much here by way of indictment of Palin based on her tax returns. We have seen an off hand admission that "tax cuts fot the rich" is demogogic hokum.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


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From The Lion in Winter.
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Luke's Dad
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What I found more interesting was that over 1/3 of the income increase in 2007 went to taxes.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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jon-nyc
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JBryan
Oct 4 2008, 10:44 AM
It seems we haven't accomplished much here by way of indictment of Palin based on her  tax returns.

And only you seem surprised by that.

Maybe you're looking for intent that isn't here.


As for your second sentence, I don't see anything in this thread that could be construed that way. Where were tax cuts for the rich brought up?

I have posted dozens of times on the regressivity of the tax regime at the tippy top. No one has ever refuted a single word of it.
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jon-nyc
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Luke's Dad
Oct 4 2008, 11:10 AM
What I found more interesting was that over 1/3 of the income increase in 2007 went to taxes.

Yeah, but off of such a pathetically low base (not to say unpatriotic ;) ) thats not surprising. I'll bet her deductions were roughly the same, thus the extra 40k of income taxed at a marginal rate of 33% would bring her 12k tax bill up to 25k.

Which is a little better.
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Luke's Dad
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Daniel
Oct 4 2008, 06:53 AM
Really? How much do you think it costs to raise five (5) children, including a child with special needs? Please consider that the cost of living has doubled in eight (8) years, and then some. Now consider that the median household income for my state, Hawaii (Alaska is also an expensive state) is only about $50,000. Take federal, state (here we have state), SS, and Medicare, taxes, and employer deductions for employee health care contributions and the like out of that, and please get back to me about whether middle class people pay enough taxes. Most middle class people don't make what the Palins made, don't have the deductions they have, and can't afford accountants. Most middle class people pay plenty of taxes.

Good grief, Daniel! I just checked median income and cost of living indices, living in Hawaii is absurd! Your cost of living is 35-40 points higher than just about anywhere else in the US. Your Median Income is pretty good, but still way out of whack for the cost of living! :o
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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ivorythumper
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jon-nyc
Oct 4 2008, 04:31 AM
Sorry, Daniel. If someone's making 3 times the average income and pays only 9% in federal taxes, that's a problem in my mind.

If the Federal government is so glutted that it confiscates 9% of OUR money -- THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
I'm leaning more and more towards a national sales tax. I just worry about whether or not businesses would drop their pricing accordingly.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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blondie
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I want to know how many here hire out HR Block to do their own taxes. We pay an accountant.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
Oct 4 2008, 05:13 AM
Daniel
Oct 4 2008, 09:02 AM
jon-nyc
Oct 4 2008, 04:50 AM
CTPianotech
Oct 4 2008, 08:27 AM
Without any other deductions, a family of 6 doesn't pay any federal income taxes until about $60,000 per year.

Yeah, which is why I think they've been cut too far. Broadly speaking, we have a situation where the middle class pay for social security and the well off pay for everything else.

I'll stand by my post as edited.

As to this comment, you're speaking gibberish. Middle class people pay federal, state, SS, and Medicare taxes, and have deductions for 401k plans (that are a joke compared to defined benefit pension plans of the previous generation) and deductions for employee contribution to (expensive) health care coverage.

Just because you didn't understand it doesn't mean it was gibberish.


I didn't mean that middle class people don't pay income tax. They do. ANd rich people pay FICA, for that matter. On an individual basis, rich people pay more in FICA than most middle class people.


But there are a lot more middle class people than there are rich people. THerefore, in aggregate, the vast majority of the funding of social security comes from the middle class.

On the income tax side, there are fewer well off people but they have a much higher tax rate. If you look at the statistics, the majority of income taxes are paid by people making over 200k a year.


So, when I said 'broadly speaking' I meant in aggregate, not at the level of the individual taxpayer.

The funding for SS comes from the middle class because of the cut off point after which the wealthy pay nothing.

As to your comments about "broadly speaking," I'll thank you for your clarification and leave it at that.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
Luke's Dad
Oct 4 2008, 08:10 AM
Daniel
Oct 4 2008, 06:53 AM
Really?  How much do you think it costs to raise five (5) children, including a child with special needs?  Please consider that the cost of living has doubled in eight (8) years, and then some.  Now consider that the median household income for my state, Hawaii (Alaska is also an expensive state) is only about $50,000.  Take federal, state (here we have state), SS, and Medicare, taxes, and employer deductions for employee health care contributions and the like out of that, and please get back to me about whether middle class people pay enough taxes.  Most middle class people don't make what the Palins made, don't have the deductions they have, and can't afford accountants.  Most middle class people pay plenty of taxes.

Good grief, Daniel! I just checked median income and cost of living indices, living in Hawaii is absurd! Your cost of living is 35-40 points higher than just about anywhere else in the US. Your Median Income is pretty good, but still way out of whack for the cost of living! :o

LD,

Yeah, it's unreal. Living here is like threading a needle. A lot of people move here from the mainland and end up destitute and on a plane back to the mainland. :)


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Copper
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Shortstop
jon-nyc
Oct 4 2008, 09:13 AM
If you look at the statistics, the majority of income taxes are paid by people making over 200k a year.


Here are some interesting numbers: http://www.american.com/archive/2007/novem...-pays-the-taxes

The bottom 50% of taxpayers pay 3% of the total income taxes paid.

Another source: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

with the same numbers.

The top 5% pays 60% of the bill.

Based on that I'd say the rich boys actually do need a break. Or at least a nice thank you.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
blondie
Oct 4 2008, 09:39 AM
I want to know how many here hire out HR Block to do their own taxes. We pay an accountant.

When I Schedule C'd my income I used Turbo Tax, now that we are incorporated we use an accountant.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
I looked it over and I suspect they would have paid quite a bit less had they hired a real CPA rather than HR Block.

The business deductions look low to me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Steve Miller
Oct 4 2008, 11:51 AM
I looked it over and I suspect they would have paid quite a bit less had they hired a real CPA rather than HR Block.

The business deductions look low to me.

They were just being "patriotic", Steve. :lol:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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