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| IT'S ABOUT TIME; A probable future for the United States | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 4 2008, 07:08 PM (7,178 Views) | |
| John D'Oh | Aug 5 2008, 05:05 AM Post #26 |
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MAMIL
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The same people planned 9/11 as staged the moon-landings in such a way as to be utterly convincing except for the oversight of having the flag flutter so prettily in the breeze. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, as the President said to the intern. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Aug 5 2008, 05:21 AM Post #27 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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First of all, I think what you meant to say is "scientists." You know it's quite possible to disagree with a scientist and not resort to attacking their credibility or their character. You can say, for example, "the esteemed scientists who believe in global warming are wrong." Nobody's going to yell at you. Second, global warming isn't a conspiracy to tax us on CO2 emissions. CO2 is just a small part of the picture. The reasons for groups to jump on to or off of the global warming bandwagon are as diverse as their evidence for why it does or does not exist. For example, it may surprise you but some people out there simply believe using more environmentally agreeable technologies is good for all of us, and what's more, we can make money doing so, instead of losing it. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| apple | Aug 5 2008, 05:31 AM Post #28 |
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one of the angels
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'shared' perhaps |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| Axtremus | Aug 5 2008, 05:36 AM Post #29 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Thanks. |
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| Aqua Letifer | Aug 5 2008, 05:42 AM Post #30 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Do you think we would be better off if we went back to that? Either way, I don't think work ethic determined your social standing back then. Pretty sure that had nothing to do with anything. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| John D'Oh | Aug 5 2008, 05:44 AM Post #31 |
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MAMIL
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There's lots of fat bastards at the top of the pile as well. Typically they are the ones killed first in a revolution before the hounds turn on each other. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Aug 5 2008, 05:47 AM Post #32 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Nonsense. Back in the day, the fat bastards at the top of the pile |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 5 2008, 05:48 AM Post #33 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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No, Aqua, it probably didn't. Most people in ages past had very few choices. But now they do - and unfortunately far too many of them choose to be a drag on the rest of us simply because they lack the drive to make something of themselves and be self-supporting, and they live in a culture that perpetuates that thinking. Of course I do not think we should go back to slavery. But neither do I believe the productive should be expected to perpetually feed and house those who refuse to contribute. A little discomfort can be a strong motivator. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| QuirtEvans | Aug 5 2008, 05:51 AM Post #34 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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No, I'm not sore, lb. Actually, I enjoy it. David's peculiar focus on me indicates that I've struck a nerve. His unwillingness to be explicit about what he's talking about, for fear that someone will call him on it or criticize him, also suggests a fundamental insecurity in his personality. He seems to view this as some kind of game in which he'll lose points if gets specific and someone can refute his statements. So he confines himself to wild-eyed, unproveable (and unrebuttable) generalities. I find it all fairly amusing. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Aug 5 2008, 05:53 AM Post #35 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Oh, and as for your statement about "give it time" ... even the worst pig finds a truffle now and then, if only by accident. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Aug 5 2008, 05:54 AM Post #36 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Okay, I agree with that entirely. However I'm probably more lenient than you are with respect to moochers. The "making something of yourself" playing field is far from even. Pointing at others who have achieved much from having little to start is meaningless because nobody else will have those identical conditions. People who take more than they offer certainly piss me off but there are all kinds. Not all freeloaders are fat sacks o' lazy crap. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 5 2008, 06:11 AM Post #37 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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How do you get to the fact that everyone has a different situation that pointing to success stories is meaningless? Every single person has a different playing field to some degree. About all I had to start with was an expectation that educating myself would help me. Financially I was on my own, and I ended up making more and working less than most MBAs I have known. (It is not that I am against working, I love it - but working hard is overrated. Working smart is what counts) I know others who grew up with every advantage and were utterly unsuccessful. The point is that in this country you can succeed if you just try. You don't really even have to try all that hard, just be persistent and seek out opportunities. First, educate yourself and learn to get along with people. Do those two things and at least reasonable economic success will follow. This talk of un-level playing field is bullsh!t. There's never been a level playing field in the history of man. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Mark | Aug 5 2008, 06:18 AM Post #38 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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And there never will be no matter how much government there is. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 5 2008, 06:23 AM Post #39 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Absolutely correct. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Free Rider | Aug 5 2008, 06:26 AM Post #40 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I agree. |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 5 2008, 06:31 AM Post #41 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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This from a guy named Free Rider..... <_< |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| John D'Oh | Aug 5 2008, 06:32 AM Post #42 |
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MAMIL
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Come the revolution there'll be a level playing field. Well actually it will be more of a trench than a playing field, but it will be level, except for the people manning the machine gun turret obviously, because they'll need a good line of sight. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Aug 5 2008, 06:36 AM Post #43 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Because you can't rely on other people as motivation for bettering yourself. Who knows what they had to deal with to get where they are? Whatever it was, it won't be what you'll have to deal with yourself.
Well I won't get into the details, but the ability to obtain that education, and being able to work--either hard or smart--varies greatly from person to person.
See I don't believe that's a universal. That's true for a great deal of people but not for everybody, and I don't automatically assume that effort is the problem when looking at someone "unsuccessful." How would you define that by the way?
Then don't expect me to buy your crap that everyone can do as you have done with the same amount of effort. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| RosemaryTwo | Aug 5 2008, 06:38 AM Post #44 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Good topic, here. |
| "Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua | |
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| QuirtEvans | Aug 5 2008, 06:42 AM Post #45 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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The playing field isn't entirely level. No one with even an ounce of brains would dispute that. By the same token, Mik is right ... the playing field has never been entirely level, and never will be. It's all a question of how steep the pitch is. I want to dispute one thing Mik seems to believe, though. He seems to believe that, if you have brains and a willingness to work hard, you can overcome any structural disadvantages in your way. I disagree with that. There are plenty of people with brains and a willingness to work hard who never overcome their beginnings. To do that, I think there are two more indispensable qualities: an imagination (so that you can picture yourself in different and better circumstances), and a willingness to take risks. Many very bright, very hard working people lack those two qualities, and they stay in the rut that they are in. The guys who started Google, or Microsoft, or Apple, aren't all that much brighter or harder working than anyone else. But they had imagination and an appetite for risk. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| John D'Oh | Aug 5 2008, 06:43 AM Post #46 |
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MAMIL
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Some people are clever, some people are not. Some people are musical, some people are not. Some people are devilishly handsome and have an enticing English accent which all the girls adore, and some people are Americans. Life ain't fair, folks. Learn to live with it. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 5 2008, 06:44 AM Post #47 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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So, Aqua, you essentially believe we are all just victims of fate? That our efforts and motivations matter very little? Throughout nature all creatures thrive or die mostly on their own efforts. So it is, or should be, with us. Although we have certainly softened the equation over time, it still holds true. You might have been born in the mountains by chance, but you'd better learn to climb over them if you want to live rather than exist. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Frank_W | Aug 5 2008, 06:48 AM Post #48 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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The flag wasn't fluttering. There was a rod running through the top edge. See?
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| John D'Oh | Aug 5 2008, 07:05 AM Post #49 |
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MAMIL
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How much did they pay you to make that post, Frank? Is that how you managed to afford your new motorised bicycle? One day, the truth will be revealed, and it won't be pretty. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Frank_W | Aug 5 2008, 07:08 AM Post #50 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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