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| Consensus Not | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 17 2008, 08:31 AM (497 Views) | |
| Jolly | Jul 17 2008, 08:31 AM Post #1 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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http://www.dailytech.com/Myth+of+Consensus...rticle12403.htm |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Horace | Jul 17 2008, 08:51 AM Post #2 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Ha. There goes the concensus. (And in fact it probably never existed.) |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| big al | Jul 17 2008, 11:50 AM Post #3 |
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Bull-Carp
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For what it may be worth, here's the latest APS statement on climate change on their website...
Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| QuirtEvans | Jul 17 2008, 12:11 PM Post #4 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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I wonder what that word "incontrivertible" means? I think it means that Jolly's source is full of crap.
Sounds a lot like the consensus that we've all been talking about. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| ivorythumper | Jul 17 2008, 12:19 PM Post #5 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I have no idea what "incontrivertible" means either. At least we can agree on something. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Jolly | Jul 17 2008, 12:21 PM Post #6 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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My cite on the APS is from today. Al's is not. If they see fit to reopen the question, incontrivertible is a word which no longer applies. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Kincaid | Jul 17 2008, 12:31 PM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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That word never applies. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Frank_W | Jul 17 2008, 12:36 PM Post #8 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Pink Floyd used it on "The Wall" album.
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| big al | Jul 17 2008, 12:40 PM Post #9 |
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Bull-Carp
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Editor's Comments - APS Forum on Physics and Society....
The entire issue with the articles pro and con is here: Physics & Society, July 2008 I would suggest reading both sides, not taking some blogger's excerpts as gospel. I personally don't regard the evidence of some specific effect as incontrovertible, but I'm not willing to bet the house on the odd chance they might be wrong. Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| lb1 | Jul 17 2008, 01:41 PM Post #10 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Just a journalist, but is he wrong? http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...5000117,00.html |
| My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09 | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 17 2008, 01:44 PM Post #11 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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It means 'I said incontrovertible, so you can't challenge me'. Much like a child says 'No do overs!'. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| lb1 | Jul 18 2008, 04:09 AM Post #12 |
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Fulla-Carp
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http://www.americansforprosperity.org/index.php?id=6070 |
| My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09 | |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 18 2008, 04:11 AM Post #13 |
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Cheers
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The blogger's point is fair, you don't dedicate an entire issue to debating something that is incontrovertible. Of course he should have said its an implicit reversal, since, as Al point out, their stated opinion seems not to have changed. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Larry | Jul 18 2008, 06:06 AM Post #14 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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REALLY!?!?!?!?! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Mark | Jul 18 2008, 06:56 AM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Sorta yelled/screamed in a deep British voice... "THE EVIDENCE BEFORE THE COURT IS INCONTROVERTIBLE THERE'S NO REASON FOR THE JURY TO RETIRE! Had to do the all caps thing to make it sound like it too! :lol: |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 18 2008, 07:07 AM Post #16 |
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Cheers
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Larry, you've quit even attempting to make sense. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Larry | Jul 18 2008, 07:24 AM Post #17 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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They say they've gone from agreeing with the IPCC to not agreeing with it, you think they're opinion hasn't changed, and you think it's *me* who has stopped making sense?.... BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| George K | Jul 18 2008, 07:39 AM Post #18 |
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Finally
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I wonder what "reversed" means. "Considerable presence" of skeptics
I wonder what "considerable" means. Editors Comments
To paraphrase Keynes, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" I consider myself a skeptic on the matter. However, the facts that the APS is willing to re-examine the debate, and that there are scientists who are not convinced are, dare I say, incontrovertible. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 18 2008, 07:45 AM Post #19 |
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Cheers
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You've misunderstood the APS as well as my post. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Larry | Jul 18 2008, 07:53 AM Post #20 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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[wiggle room]I may have misunderstood you[/wiggle room] but I have not misunderstood the report. Perhaps in light of George's post you'll understand their report a little better too? Hark! ....... what's that sound I hear? .. why, could it be the sound of a consensus falling down? or could it be there was no consensus to fall, and the sound I hear is egos slamming into a hollow ideology as it topples to the ground.......hmmmm.............. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| LadyElton | Jul 18 2008, 07:59 AM Post #21 |
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Fulla-Carp
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| Hilary aka LadyElton | |
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| George K | Jul 18 2008, 08:10 AM Post #22 |
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Finally
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The APS official stance has not changed, Larry. They have "reaffirmed" their 2007 position (which Al quoted): From their Homepage:
Nevertheless, I find it fascinating that they are willing to open the debate. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Larry | Jul 18 2008, 08:26 AM Post #23 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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They're willing to open the debate because while their 'official' stance has not changed - yet - a large percentage of them no longer agree with it. This would lead one to the logical conclusion that the "official stance" is about to change, and in fact has already except for actually putting it down on paper. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Horace | Jul 18 2008, 08:40 AM Post #24 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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what I like best about the Global Warming debate is how so many millions of people are 'so sure' about this absurdly complex scientific conclusion - millions of people who have never met a science textbook they weren't terrified of. I don't think a more perfect example of people believing what they're told to believe has existed in the last 50 years. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| George K | Jul 19 2008, 05:29 PM Post #25 |
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Finally
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Here is Monckton's Letter to the APS. 19 July 2008 The Viscount Monckton of Brenchley Carie, Rannoch, PH17 2QJ, UK monckton@mail.com Arthur Bienenstock, Esq., Ph.D., President, American Physical Society, Wallenberg Hall, 450 Serra Mall, Bldg 160, Stanford University, Palo Alto, CA 94305. By email to artieb@slac.stanford.edu Dear Dr. Bienenstock, Physics and Society The editors of Physics and Society, a newsletter of the American Physical Society, invited me to submit a paper for their July 2008 edition explaining why I considered that the warming that might be expected from anthropogenic enrichment of the atmosphere with carbon dioxide might be significantly less than the IPCC imagines. I very much appreciated this courteous offer, and submitted a paper. The commissioning editor referred it to his colleague, who subjected it to a thorough and competent scientific review. I was delighted to accede to all of the reviewer's requests for revision (see the attached reconciliation sheet). Most revisions were intended to clarify for physicists who were not climatologists the method by which the IPCC evaluates climate sensitivity - a method which the IPCC does not itself clearly or fully explain. The paper was duly published, immediately after a paper by other authors setting out the IPCC's viewpoint. Some days later, however, without my knowledge or consent, the following appeared, in red, above the text of my paper as published on the website of Physics and Society: "The following article has not undergone any scientific peer review. Its conclusions are in disagreement with the overwhelming opinion of the world scientific community. The Council of the American Physical Society disagrees with this article's conclusions." This seems discourteous. I had been invited to submit the paper; I had submitted it; an eminent Professor of Physics had then scientifically reviewed it in meticulous detail; I had revised it at all points requested, and in the manner requested; the editors had accepted and published the reviewed and revised draft (some 3000 words longer than the original) and I had expended considerable labor, without having been offered or having requested any honorarium. Please either remove the offending red-flag text at once or let me have the name and qualifications of the member of the Council or advisor to it who considered my paper before the Council ordered the offending text to be posted above my paper; a copy of this rapporteur's findings and ratio decidendi; the date of the Council meeting at which the findings were presented; a copy of the minutes of the discussion; and a copy of the text of the Council's decision, together with the names of those present at the meeting. If the Council has not scientifically evaluated or formally considered my paper, may I ask with what credible scientific justification, and on whose authority, the offending text asserts primo, that the paper had not been scientifically reviewed when it had; secundo, that its conclusions disagree with what is said (on no evidence) to be the "overwhelming opinion of the world scientific community"; and, tertio, that "The Council of the American Physical Society disagrees with this article's conclusions"? Which of my conclusions does the Council disagree with, and on what scientific grounds (if any)? Having regard to the circumstances, surely the Council owes me an apology? Yours truly, THE VISCOUNT MONCKTON OF BRENCHLEY Here is the paper. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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or could it be there was no consensus to fall, and the sound I hear is egos slamming into a hollow ideology as it topples to the ground.......

4:52 PM Jul 10