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Why is religion the quintessential forum topic?
Topic Started: May 21 2008, 03:27 PM (2,762 Views)
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Why?
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LWpianistin
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HOLY CARP!!!
Because it's so complex and very interesting.

Or because God wants it that way. :P
And how are you today?
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
Oh gosh, do we have to look up "quintessential" in the dictionary? :wink:

I don't recall that it is any more controversial or any more frequently brought up than other subjects like gay marriage, abortion, terrorism, what's for dinner, OMG ITS TEH TRAIN, etc.
Sam
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
pianojerome
May 21 2008, 04:37 PM
Oh gosh, do we have to look up "quintessential" in the dictionary?  :wink:


NOOO!! :crazy:
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
pianojerome
May 21 2008, 03:37 PM
Oh gosh, do we have to look up "quintessential" in the dictionary?  :wink:

I don't recall that it is any more controversial or any more frequently brought up than other subjects like gay marriage, abortion, terrorism, what's for dinner, OMG ITS TEH TRAIN, etc.

Interesting though that all the debate topics you listed divide along religious lines!

I guess the topic is so energetic because it's unresolvable and massively emotional on both sides.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Rick
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Senior Carp
because we all fear death and the possibility that we are just worm food after.
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Axtremus
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1. It's as yet unresolved
2. Low barrier to entry (i.e., not much training/education/experience/intelligence to spout out opinions regarding religion)
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
Horace
May 21 2008, 08:10 PM
pianojerome
May 21 2008, 03:37 PM
Oh gosh, do we have to look up "quintessential" in the dictionary?  :wink:

I don't recall that it is any more controversial or any more frequently brought up than other subjects like gay marriage, abortion, terrorism, what's for dinner, OMG ITS TEH TRAIN, etc.

Interesting though that all the debate topics you listed divide along religious lines!

They do, but not entirely.

It's very popular to straw-man argue things like gay marriage and abortion. It's actually somewhat offensive. Someone here told me that the only reason I could possibly believe what I believe about gay marriage (remember I'm not 100% one way or the other) is because I'm "so steeped in religion." Is that really all there is to it? Am I just a sheep? You think I don't think? People assume that if a person believes in God, that means QED without a doubt that that person doesn't think for himself, that everything he believes was dictated by God at Mount Sinai, and that the only reason he believes it is *because* it was dictated by God. Nothing could be farther from the truth!! There are arguments against gay marriage that have nothing at all to do with either religion or religious upbringing of the person making the argument. I bring up those arguments, and they ignored -- oh, he's a Jew, he's only saying that because he's Jewish. And if you want to know the truth, *that* is precisely one of the reasons why I am opposed -- it's the arrogance, the bigotry, the assumption that I couldn't possibly be thinking for myself, that I must be a hateful religious bigot. It's a shame, that's no good reason at all.

Same thing with abortion - it is not a pure divide between the religious sheep and the atheist thinkers. Not every argument against abortion is a religious argument, and it is possible to be against abortion out of personal conviction and for reasons that do not cite the bible or quote some priest, etc -- and certainly not, as Kenny so poetically puts it, "because God said so, I do so."

Terrorism has little to do with religion.... crashtest and what's for dinner, I leave those to you to decide if they are religious or not. ;p
Sam
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Frank_W
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Very well said, Sam! :clap: Fcuking brilliant!!
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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kenny
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Rick
May 21 2008, 04:23 PM
because we all fear death and the possibility that we are just worm food after.

Bingo.

What we know for sure is just sooooooooo bad.

It can't be all there is.
There MUST be more.
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
I'll bet I could count on one hand the number of times I've replied in the religion argument threads. It just doesn't interest me. :shrug:
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Frank_W
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I don't fear death. I honestly don't. My only fear is that I won't be lucid and in full command of my senses, when it comes. I've led a good and vigorous life, tried to treat people well, and I've been about the business of tying up loose ends, because death can come at any time. There are no guarantees. When it comes, I will greet it as an old friend, and simply ask, "What took you so long?"
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
May 21 2008, 09:49 PM
Rick
May 21 2008, 04:23 PM
because we all fear death and the possibility that we are just worm food after.

Bingo.

What we know for sure is just sooooooooo bad.

It can't be all there is.
There MUST be more.

Again, it's a straw-man argument.

Why are people religious? Here are reasons X Y Z why all people who are religious are religious.

It's nonsense, because there are a zillion reasons why people are religious and why they believe what they believe and why they do or don't do what they do or don't do, and everybody has their own personal combination of reasons.
Sam
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Frank_W
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Indeed. I don't believe in immortality because I'm afraid of winking out like a match, when this life is over. I believe in immortality because I have experienced myself as pure consciousness, wholly separate from this physical body.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
It's very popular to straw-man argue things like gay marriage and abortion. It's actually somewhat offensive. Someone here told me that the only reason I could possibly believe what I believe about gay marriage (remember I'm not 100% one way or the other) is because I'm "so steeped in religion." Is that really all there is to it? Am I just a sheep? You think I don't think? People assume that if a person believes in God, that means QED without a doubt that that person doesn't think for himself, that everything he believes was dictated by God at Mount Sinai, and that the only reason he believes it is *because* it was dictated by God. Nothing could be farther from the truth!! There are arguments against gay marriage that have nothing at all to do with either religion or religious upbringing of the person making the argument. I bring up those arguments, and they ignored -- oh, he's a Jew, he's only saying that because he's Jewish. And if you want to know the truth, *that* is precisely one of the reasons why I am opposed -- it's the arrogance, the bigotry, the assumption that I couldn't possibly be thinking for myself, that I must be a hateful religious bigot. It's a shame, that's no good reason at all.


Excellent comment. Not only do people "steeped in religion" have brains, and actually use them; but also, it always surprises me how many people don't realize that even the religions themselves do not always have definitive answers within the faith itself to some of these issues. So many people have latched onto entirely inaccurate images of the various religions.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Axtremus
May 21 2008, 05:28 PM

2. Low barrier to entry (i.e., not much training/education/experience/intelligence to spout out opinions regarding religion)

You are right, Ax. And if we all were opining on the Hasmonean wool industry in the first century with as little training/education/experience/intelligence that deficiency would be just as obvious to the trained classicist.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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sarah_blueparrot
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Fulla-Carp
It's interesting to see that those who despise religion in all its forms are the ones most often to bring up the subject.
Death is simply a shedding of the physical body like the butterfly shedding its cocoon. It is a transition to a higher state of consciousness where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, and to be able to grow.

- Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross
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lb1
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sarah_blueparrot
May 22 2008, 12:04 AM
It's interesting to see that those who despise religion in all its forms are the ones most often to bring up the subject.

There it is, the answer to this complex subject answered in one simple sentence.

The real question should be, Why do those who despise religion in all its forms bring up the subject and vigorously participate in the discussion?

I would venture to say that more than 90% of the time the subject of religion is brought up by someone that despises religion, and before Dewey started posting his sermon the percentage was higher than that.

lb
My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
O NOES, IT'S TEH CLASS AGAIN!!!!! On Religion: Speeches to Its Cultured Despisers, Friedrich Schleiermacher, 1799. Must... stop... class... over....

^_^
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
:lol2:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
kenny
May 21 2008, 07:27 PM
Why?

God only knows.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
ivorythumper
May 22 2008, 04:00 AM
Axtremus
May 21 2008, 05:28 PM

2. Low barrier to entry (i.e., not much training/education/experience/intelligence to spout out opinions regarding religion)

You are right, Ax. And if we all were opining on the Hasmonean wool industry in the first century with as little training/education/experience/intelligence that deficiency would be just as obvious to the trained classicist.

Hey Ax - does the term [size=14]pwn3d![/size] mean anything to you?

Epic pwnag3 IT.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Beat me to it.

EPIC!! :clap: :thumb:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
There it is, the answer to this complex subject answered in one simple sentence.


Absolutely.

Separate religion from God for a moment. Religion is man's attempt to relate to God. God..... IS.... and he's not "religion".

I'm always amused when those who don't believe in a higher power try to dismiss it as just some leftover superstition that early man came up with to explain the things around them that they didn't understand. What a childish and frankly ignorant viewpoint. They seem to be of the opinion that cavemen should have known Einstein's theory of relativity, and if only they had, they wouldn't have come up with such "silly nonsense".

But that's not it at all. Out of all the life that has ever existed on this planet, humans are the only species to ever look outside themselves. From the earliest point we know of mankind's existence, humans have looked outside themselves. So we must give this phenomenon a name - let's call it the "God Spark". Makes it easier to discuss..

Humans look outside themselves because they are aware. They have a "God Spark" - something in man's makeup compels him to seek communion with a higher power. Humans have sought after this "God Spark" with the tools and knowledge available to them at the time - and a look back over mankind's total history shows the many ways they tried to find that connection with a higher power. Some of it looks silly to us now, because of our advanced knowledge in comparison to them. That isn't the point, nor does it matter.

The point is, from the dawn of civilization, mankind has been compelled to connect with a higher power. Why? Because while some will convince themselves they are "too smart to fall for that", mankind as a species is programmed to seek that higher power. The why of it is contained in the Genesis type stories, and in spite of people like Ax who thinks religion is a discussion among the dumb and uneducated, a full discussion of it is actually quite deep and involved, and to be honest, far above Ax's (and several others') current ability to comprehend.

Short answer - because we are programmed to seek it.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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sarah_blueparrot
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Fulla-Carp
Posted Image

I'm starting to think I must be wrong.
Death is simply a shedding of the physical body like the butterfly shedding its cocoon. It is a transition to a higher state of consciousness where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, and to be able to grow.

- Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross
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