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Middle Class Homelessness
Topic Started: May 20 2008, 06:09 AM (933 Views)
JBryan
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I am the grey one
The reason for running this story is clear. It is the "we're all just one paycheck away from eating out of a dumpster" narrative the media trots out during every Republican administration around election time.

I have been where this woman is but I was in my 30's, not 67. I also didn't have the dogs or cell phone but I had enough other problems to realize that I was living in my car because of the poor choices I made. Thankfully, I was able to turn my life around but it probably never would have happened had I not realized that it was my own damn fault and took responsibility for it.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
JBryan
May 20 2008, 10:11 AM
The reason for running this story is clear. It is the "we're all just one paycheck away from eating out of a dumpster" narrative the media trots out during every Republican administration around election time.


You bet. No argument here.

Quote:
 
I have been where this woman is but I was in my 30's, not 67. I also didn't have the dogs or cell phone but I had enough other problems to realize that I was living in my car because of the poor choices I made. Thankfully, I was able to turn my life around but it probably never would have happened had I not realized that it was my own damn fault and took responsibility for it.


Are you assuming she's not taking responsibility for it, or are you just speaking for your own experiences?
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Aqua Letifer
May 20 2008, 11:03 AM
lb1
May 20 2008, 09:59 AM
Oh, but it does have everything to do with it. This woman and CNN is publicizing her situation and there will be bleeding hearts who will shell out money for either her or her cause and this money could have been used for a lot better causes.

lb

Can you not see the fallacy in what you're saying? Assuming that even happens, you're going to be pissed at this woman because other people didn't donate to what you see as a more worthy cause?

If you're going to boil everything down to a comparison between starving children in Africa then why would you care about anything that happens in this country.

I don't see the fallacy -- it's in the interest of the left to make the economy seem as bad as possible and to fear monger about homelessness. The fact is this woman made a bunch of bad choices, including being a loan processor in Santa Barbara.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
No, JB, you dinosaur!!! :lol2: In this modern age of entitlement, it's always someone else's fault!! Someone can be sued! Everyone is entitled to something for nothing! Get with the program! :rolleyes2:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Aqua Letifer
May 20 2008, 12:12 PM
Quote:
 
I have been where this woman is but I was in my 30's, not 67. I also didn't have the dogs or cell phone but I had enough other problems to realize that I was living in my car because of the poor choices I made. Thankfully, I was able to turn my life around but it probably never would have happened had I not realized that it was my own damn fault and took responsibility for it.


Are you assuming she's not taking responsibility for it, or are you just speaking for your own experiences?

I am speaking from my own experience but she seems to be blaming her situation on the economy so take it from there.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Frank_W
May 20 2008, 10:13 AM
No, JB, you dinosaur!!! :lol2: In this modern age of entitlement, it's always someone else's fault!! Someone can be sued! Everyone is entitled to something for nothing!  Get with the program! :rolleyes2:

Frank if you even read the article, you'd know that she's not blaming anyone but herself. As for your comment about "something for nothing," she's opting to work instead of living off government assistance.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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LWpianistin
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HOLY CARP!!!
There's a woman sleeping in her car. Nothing new at all.

Not worth arguing over.
And how are you today?
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Aqua Letifer
May 20 2008, 01:15 PM
Frank_W
May 20 2008, 10:13 AM
No, JB, you dinosaur!!! :lol2: In this modern age of entitlement, it's always someone else's fault!! Someone can be sued! Everyone is entitled to something for nothing!  Get with the program! :rolleyes2:

Frank if you even read the article, you'd know that she's not blaming anyone but herself. As for your comment about "something for nothing," she's opting to work instead of living off government assistance.

I know that. I'm speaking in societal generalities.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
ivorythumper
May 20 2008, 10:12 AM

I don't see the fallacy -- it's in the interest of the left to make the economy seem as bad as possible and to fear monger about homelessness. The fact is this woman made a bunch of bad choices, including being a loan processor in Santa Barbara.

So, since we can't get on her case about not working, we have to blame her for picking the wrong profession. Okay. :rolleyes:

She made a comment about the economy, but she also said that she believes her situation is temporary and that she's working to fix it.

Ironically, you all seem to be playing the blame game more than she is. Better than the other way around I suppose.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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lb1
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Fulla-Carp
Aqua Letifer
May 20 2008, 10:03 AM
you're going to be pissed at this woman because other people didn't donate to what you see as a more worthy cause?

If you're going to boil everything down to a comparison between starving children in Africa then why would you care about anything that happens in this country.

No, I'm not going to be pissed at her for that, I'm pissed at her and the society that has degenerated to the point that she and others like her are considered a victim.

lb
My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Aqua Letifer
May 20 2008, 12:10 PM
QuirtEvans
May 20 2008, 08:55 AM

It's bass-ackwards prioritization.

If you are living in your car, with no running water anywhere in sight, what should you spend money on?  A cellphone, two dogs, or saving up for a freaking place to live?

I'm willing to bet she goes to Starbucks, or the Quicki-Mart, every morning, too.

First of all, the cell phone thing is ridiculous because how in the hell do you expect her to get a job in the next town over or apply to live in an apartment without a phone. She already doesn't have an address.

My point is, what the hell else do you expect out of this woman. She's working, she's not a felon or drug addict and she's not mooching off the government. She's homeless, she has no health benefits, she's separated from her kids and her family won't help her.

Who in the **** cares if she keeps her dogs.

As for visits to "the Starbucks, or the Quicki-Mart," you have no evidence whatsoever.

She has no running water, Aqua. What do you think she drinks every day?

My point, which you seemed to have missed, was that "I'm willing to bet". That means I don't have evidence, just educated guesswork. But I'd bet I'm right.

It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
May 20 2008, 10:11 AM
The reason for running this story is clear. It is the "we're all just one paycheck away from eating out of a dumpster" narrative the media trots out during every Republican administration around election time.

A-yup. As far as the media is concerned, homelessness, poverty and unhappiness don't exist during Democratic administrations.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Aqua Letifer
May 20 2008, 11:20 AM
ivorythumper
May 20 2008, 10:12 AM

I don't see the fallacy -- it's in the interest of the left to make the economy seem as bad as possible and to fear monger about homelessness. The fact is this woman made a bunch of bad choices, including being a loan processor in Santa Barbara.

So, since we can't get on her case about not working, we have to blame her for picking the wrong profession. Okay. :rolleyes:

She made a comment about the economy, but she also said that she believes her situation is temporary and that she's working to fix it.

Ironically, you all seem to be playing the blame game more than she is. Better than the other way around I suppose.

No Aqua, no doubt she is doing the best she can do. But why is she even on our radar screen? And why of all things did the reporter choose to quote her on that point? You need to tune in to propaganda.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
LWpianistin
May 20 2008, 01:15 PM
There's a woman sleeping in her car. Nothing new at all.

Not worth arguing over.

In my experience, I haven't known too many middle class people (aside from those running away from a bad marriage) who lived in their car for more than a night or two.

Let alone a whole parking lot of them.

One woman isn't the story. The parking lot full of them is the story.

And, let me remind you (not really you, LW, but the general "you" here) that the sainted Ronald Reagan used to make policy for hundreds of millions based on individual examples provided in his State of the Union. One person's story was good enough for you guys back then, but suddenly one person's story is only one person?

It's spelled H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
lb1
May 20 2008, 10:21 AM

No, I'm not going to be pissed at her for that, I'm pissed at her and the society that has degenerated to the point that she and others like her are considered a victim.

lb

Well I can understand that if that's indeed the case. If we compare ourselves to other countries, though, I think that we have a much more conservative stance on "victimhood" and what the government should support.

FWIW, I consider her a victim of her own bad planning. I just don't see the point in saying "she should have known better" or nitpicking her situation any.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
ivorythumper
May 20 2008, 10:22 AM
No Aqua, no doubt she is doing the best she can do. But why is she even on our radar screen? And why of all things did the reporter choose to quote her on that point? You need to tune in to propaganda.

It's not propaganda, IT, it's our news. There is little difference between the two.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Aqua Letifer
May 20 2008, 01:27 PM
lb1
May 20 2008, 10:21 AM

No, I'm not going to be pissed at her for that, I'm pissed at her and the society that has degenerated to the point that she and others like her are considered a victim.

lb

Well I can understand that if that's indeed the case. If we compare ourselves to other countries, though, I think that we have a much more conservative stance on "victimhood" and what the government should support.

FWIW, I consider her a victim of her own bad planning. I just don't see the point in saying "she should have known better" or nitpicking her situation any.

It's her own bad planning ... but when she's elderly and out of money, we'll pay for it. When she's broke and in the nursing home, who do you think will be paying for her care, Aqua?

And I am NOT advocating letting her die in some cardboard box under a bridge. But this is an example of why people cannot be left to make their own bed ... because we won't let them sleep in it.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
QuirtEvans
May 20 2008, 11:27 AM

And, let me remind you (not really you, LW, but the general "you" here) that the sainted Ronald Reagan used to make policy for hundreds of millions based on individual examples provided in his State of the Union. One person's story was good enough for you guys back then, but suddenly one person's story is only one person?

It's spelled H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E.

No Quirt, Reagan did not use "to make policy for hundreds of millions based on individual examples provided in his State of the Union."

I am surprised you can spell 'hypocrite' and not understand the problem with your sentence.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
The government's bail-out of the housing crisis is proof of that. Makes me sick... It penalizes those of us who had the foresight and common sense to live within our means, budget our money, and make smart, responsible decisions. Pisses me off.....
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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lb1
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Fulla-Carp
QuirtEvans
May 20 2008, 10:27 AM
LWpianistin
May 20 2008, 01:15 PM
There's a woman sleeping in her car. Nothing new at all.

Not worth arguing over.

In my experience, I haven't known too many middle class people (aside from those running away from a bad marriage) who lived in their car for more than a night or two.

Let alone a whole parking lot of them.

One woman isn't the story. The parking lot full of them is the story.

And, let me remind you (not really you, LW, but the general "you" here) that the sainted Ronald Reagan used to make policy for hundreds of millions based on individual examples provided in his State of the Union. One person's story was good enough for you guys back then, but suddenly one person's story is only one person?

It's spelled H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E.

I think the story said something like 12 parking lots, and I don't doubt that at all. I don't doubt that there are multiple thousands of people living in their cars. My only question is why.

lb
My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Aqua Letifer
May 20 2008, 11:28 AM
ivorythumper
May 20 2008, 10:22 AM
No Aqua, no doubt she is doing the best she can do.  But why is she even on our radar screen? And why of all things did the reporter choose to quote her on that point?  You need to tune in to propaganda.

It's not propaganda, IT, it's our news. There is little difference between the two.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here, unless you can tell us the difference between propaganda and news.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
QuirtEvans
May 20 2008, 10:31 AM

It's her own bad planning ... but when she's elderly and out of money, we'll pay for it. When she's broke and in the nursing home, who do you think will be paying for her care, Aqua?

And I am NOT advocating letting her die in some cardboard box under a bridge. But this is an example of why people cannot be left to make their own bed ... because we won't let them sleep in it.

I personally don't care. She isn't an addict or a felon, and I assume she worked for the majority of her life. It seems her mistake was that she wasn't smart with her savings. I would have no problem seeing my tax dollars go toward supporting her in the nursing home.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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OperaTenor
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Pisa-Carp
For some reason(perhaps it's chauvinism), I always find homeless women vastly more poignant than homeless men.

Regardless of how she got into the mess(my vote is for poor choices, FWIW), it's sad.



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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
ivorythumper
May 20 2008, 10:34 AM

You seem to be contradicting yourself here, unless you can tell us the difference between propaganda and news.

If you read my posts above, you'd see that I agree with JBryan about why this is in the news in the first place.

Here is what I said before:

Quote:
 
Oh c'mon, you know the answer to that. She's the poster girl because "she's one of us." They ran this story about her because it's supposed to make us think whether or not we're next. I'm not surprised at all this made the papers.


I've said many times before that I don't hold our news media in any high regard. But that's a separate issue.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Rick
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Senior Carp
QuirtEvans
May 20 2008, 10:27 AM
LWpianistin
May 20 2008, 01:15 PM
There's a woman sleeping in her car. Nothing new at all.

Not worth arguing over.

In my experience, I haven't known too many middle class people (aside from those running away from a bad marriage) who lived in their car for more than a night or two.

Let alone a whole parking lot of them.

One woman isn't the story. The parking lot full of them is the story.

And, let me remind you (not really you, LW, but the general "you" here) that the sainted Ronald Reagan used to make policy for hundreds of millions based on individual examples provided in his State of the Union. One person's story was good enough for you guys back then, but suddenly one person's story is only one person?

It's spelled H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E.

My brother speaketh sooth!


Yeah, Santa Barbara is not a good place to scratch a living. There's a big Hispanic contingent in this town too, they're doing all the menial minimum wage labor stuff and you wonder, where the hell do they live? Well they rent apartments or small homes and pack about 20 in them to cover the rent, that's what they do.
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