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Let me let y'all in on a little secret...
Topic Started: May 19 2008, 06:10 AM (579 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Some of y'all don't think the price of gas is high enough...if so, I have rousing good news for you:

Due to new government safety mandates for offshore rigs in the post-Katrina era, all rigs must now have a new type of anchoring system. The rigs already in the Gulf are being retrofitted, but the vast majority do not have the new system in place.

Therefore, in the event of a hurricane in the Gulf (we do have those, from time-to-time, you know) those rigs not retro-fited must be shut down and evacuated.

Give it a couple of months....$5/gal gasoline and $6/diesel may be in your future...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Hopefully this whole mess will increase public transportation infrastructure.

And as always, it'd be coming a little late.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Aqua Letifer
May 19 2008, 08:11 AM
Hopefully this whole mess will increase public transportation infrastructure.

And as always, it'd be coming a little late.

My understanding is that light rail is seeing a boom already...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Jolly
May 19 2008, 06:14 AM
Aqua Letifer
May 19 2008, 08:11 AM
Hopefully this whole mess will increase public transportation infrastructure.

And as always, it'd be coming a little late.

My understanding is that light rail is seeing a boom already...

Around here they're expanding it, but our city's metro is a mess.

We have two states and one district, each expecting the other two to pay for the infrastructure. Because of this and other crap, it's more expensive than driving.

Amtrac isn't much better. Instead of driving, I'd take a train up north if it didn't cost so damn much.

Those prices aren't going down, but since gas is going up so high I might end up changing my mind anyway.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
As a nation, our culture, economy, and industrial infrastructures are all structured in ways that are highly dependent on oil -- more so than the rest of the industrialized world. It's going to be a hard transition.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
That's exactly right, Ax. Once houses, offices, hopping centers, and factories are built (as they are now) in widely scattered locations only easily accessible by automobile, the costs to modify that arrangement as simply enormous. Change will come, as it did when the automobile and the paved road were invented, but it will be slow and, at times, painful for those who have invested in the status quo.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
We should be drilling and uncapping these unused wells rather than regulating them out of existence. Could the oil companies be waiting for even higher prices?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Mikhailoh
May 19 2008, 06:47 AM
We should be drilling and uncapping these unused wells rather than regulating them out of existence. Could the oil companies be waiting for even higher prices?

Yessir, no reason at all why we don't untap those reserves. No reason at all. Damn hippies.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Jolly
May 19 2008, 10:10 AM
Due to new government safety mandates for offshore rigs in the post-Katrina era, all rigs must now have a new type of anchoring system. The rigs already in the Gulf are being retrofitted, but the vast majority do not have the new system in place.

Therefore, in the event of a hurricane in the Gulf (we do have those, from time-to-time, you know) those rigs not retro-fited must be shut down and evacuated.

I'll pay a little more for energy for the safety of those workers.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
May 19 2008, 09:04 AM
Jolly
May 19 2008, 10:10 AM
Due to new government safety mandates for offshore rigs in the post-Katrina era, all rigs must now have a new type of anchoring system. The rigs already in the Gulf are being retrofitted, but the vast majority do not have the new system in place.

Therefore, in the event of a hurricane in the Gulf (we do have those, from time-to-time, you know) those rigs not retro-fited must be shut down and evacuated.

I'll pay a little more for energy for the safety of those workers.

You already pay, and it's not a safe job.

Safer than it used to be...I haven't heard of anybody around the house dying in the last few years, although I can tick off a half-dozen guys that I knew that have perished on the rigs over the years.

Yes, drilling has changed, but there is no such thing as an absolutely safe rig...even today.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Jolly
May 19 2008, 07:34 AM

You already pay, and it's not a safe job.

Safer than it used to be...I haven't heard of anybody around the house dying in the last few years, although I can tick off a half-dozen guys that I knew that have perished on the rigs over the years.

Yes, drilling has changed, but there is no such thing as an absolutely safe rig...even today.

Acknowledging that's no reason to keep from improving safety regs.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Aqua Letifer
May 19 2008, 09:36 AM
Jolly
May 19 2008, 07:34 AM

You already pay, and it's not a safe job.

Safer than it used to be...I haven't heard of anybody around the house dying in the last few years, although I can tick off a half-dozen guys that I knew that have perished on the rigs over the years.

Yes, drilling has changed, but there is no such thing as an absolutely safe rig...even today.

Acknowledging that's no reason to keep from improving safety regs.

And they do...but from a business standpoint, what price safety?

There are some jobs which are inherently unsafe. Try unloading drill stem in 4-foot seas, and see if you don't experience the pucker effect.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Jolly
May 19 2008, 07:38 AM

And they do...but from a business standpoint, what price safety?

There are some jobs which are inherently unsafe. Try unloading drill stem in 4-foot seas, and see if you don't experience the pucker effect.

IMNSHO, if you're the owner of such a facility, and you have the means to make a job like that safer, you have the responsibility. OSHA seems to agree, so I trust that they're doing their job down there.

Sure it'll cost more, but if the owners didn't want to pay so much for safety standards then it would probably be best to change industries. They knew the costs going into it, just as the workers knew the risks.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
This is Thunderhorse:

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?catego...ntentId=7009088

Over a billion bucks to build, and when she comes on line, she'll put out $32,000,000 worth of oil/day (not counting natural gas).

When the Golden Gate bridge was built, the yardstick used was "a man a million". We're a lot safer today, but when you're kicking around these kinds of numbers, there is a lot of pressure to keep a rig drilling.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Jolly
May 19 2008, 10:38 AM
Aqua Letifer
May 19 2008, 09:36 AM
Jolly
May 19 2008, 07:34 AM

You already pay, and it's not a safe job.

Safer than it used to be...I haven't heard of anybody around the house dying in the last few years, although I can tick off a half-dozen guys that I knew that have perished on the rigs over the years.

Yes, drilling has changed, but there is no such thing as an absolutely safe rig...even today.

Acknowledging that's no reason to keep from improving safety regs.

And they do...but from a business standpoint, what price safety?


That's always the question. And frequently the silly answer is that no price is too high.

Take life rafts on airplanes (and redundant life preservers). How much does it cost to outfit every plane in the world with them, and then to inspect them and replace them every so often? Don't forget to add in the extra airplane fuel used to cart those things around. Compare that to the number of lives that have been saved by rafts and life preservers. The cost per life is astronomical.

Then imagine the number of lives the same amount of money could have saved if devoted to medical research, or better treatment facilities, or preventative care, or something.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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lb1
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Fulla-Carp
Jolly
May 19 2008, 07:38 AM
There are some jobs which are inherently unsafe. Try unloading drill stem in 4-foot seas, and see if you don't experience the pucker effect.

All they have to do is move the rig to Iowa and they wouldn't have to deal with the wave problem. Safety First.

lb
My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
QuirtEvans
May 19 2008, 08:01 AM

That's always the question. And frequently the silly answer is that no price is too high.

Take life rafts on airplanes (and redundant life preservers). How much does it cost to outfit every plane in the world with them, and then to inspect them and replace them every so often? Don't forget to add in the extra airplane fuel used to cart those things around. Compare that to the number of lives that have been saved by rafts and life preservers. The cost per life is astronomical.

Then imagine the number of lives the same amount of money could have saved if devoted to medical research, or better treatment facilities, or preventative care, or something.

Yeah, but that's just silly. It'd be more cost efficient, and probably save more lives, if you designed planes that didn't crash as often.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Aqua Letifer
May 19 2008, 11:33 AM
QuirtEvans
May 19 2008, 08:01 AM

That's always the question.  And frequently the silly answer is that no price is too high.

Take life rafts on airplanes (and redundant life preservers).  How much does it cost to outfit every plane in the world with them, and then to inspect them and replace them every so often?  Don't forget to add in the extra airplane fuel used to cart those things around.  Compare that to the number of lives that have been saved by rafts and life preservers.  The cost per life is astronomical. 

Then imagine the number of lives the same amount of money could have saved if devoted to medical research, or better treatment facilities, or preventative care, or something.

Yeah, but that's just silly. It'd be more cost efficient, and probably save more lives, if you designed planes that didn't crash as often.

How often do you think airplanes crash? Commercial jetliners, I mean?

And how much do you think it would cost to engineer them to crash less?

Unless you were being deliberately absurd, that statement came across as hopelessly stupid.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
QuirtEvans
May 19 2008, 09:28 AM

How often do you think airplanes crash?  Commercial jetliners, I mean?

And how much do you think it would cost to engineer them to crash less?

Unless you were being deliberately absurd, that statement came across as hopelessly stupid.

Quirt you should really stop letting people crap in your oatmeal.

My point was that instead of throwing money at a contingency that's very remote, and what's more, has a very small survival rate even when it does happen, it'd make much more sense to have a good R&D department that incorporates flight safety into their designs.

Then, when it comes time for an upgrade, you save about the same number of lives with a process you take part in anyway, instead of providing for scenarios that offer little hope for survival.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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sarah_blueparrot
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Fulla-Carp
Aqua Letifer
May 19 2008, 07:34 PM
Quirt you should really stop letting people crap in your oatmeal.

:spit: Sorry. Really.

The first time I flew I turned to my mum and asked, "So where are the parachutes?" She told me there weren't any, and I barely believed her. I was convinced I was going to a cold and quick death. I still think the same during every turbulence, and constantly think about the best position for landing on the hard earth after falling for thousands of feet. I've heard about people surviving those kinds of falls, and I'm determined to be one of them.

edit: Obviously this isn't my aim in death life, but if the situation should ever arise...
Death is simply a shedding of the physical body like the butterfly shedding its cocoon. It is a transition to a higher state of consciousness where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, and to be able to grow.

- Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
sarah_blueparrot
May 19 2008, 01:59 PM
Aqua Letifer
May 19 2008, 07:34 PM
Quirt you should really stop letting people crap in your oatmeal.

:spit: Sorry. Really.

The first time I flew I turned to my mum and asked, "So where are the parachutes?" She told me there weren't any, and I barely believed her. I was convinced I was going to a cold and quick death. I still think the same during every turbulence, and constantly think about the best position for landing on the hard earth after falling for thousands of feet. I've heard about people surviving those kinds of falls, and I'm determined to be one of them.

edit: Obviously this isn't my aim in death life, but if the situation should ever arise...

Just jump up in the air right before the plane hits. :wink:
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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sarah_blueparrot
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Fulla-Carp
Luke's Dad
May 19 2008, 08:09 PM
Just jump up in the air right before the plane hits. :wink:

Well, anything than the dreaded BReakyourneckACE position...
Death is simply a shedding of the physical body like the butterfly shedding its cocoon. It is a transition to a higher state of consciousness where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, and to be able to grow.

- Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Aqua Letifer
May 19 2008, 12:34 PM
QuirtEvans
May 19 2008, 09:28 AM

How often do you think airplanes crash?  Commercial jetliners, I mean?

And how much do you think it would cost to engineer them to crash less?

Unless you were being deliberately absurd, that statement came across as hopelessly stupid.

Quirt you should really stop letting people crap in your oatmeal.

My point was that instead of throwing money at a contingency that's very remote, and what's more, has a very small survival rate even when it does happen, it'd make much more sense to have a good R&D department that incorporates flight safety into their designs.

Then, when it comes time for an upgrade, you save about the same number of lives with a process you take part in anyway, instead of providing for scenarios that offer little hope for survival.

And my point was that, given the ultra-low incidence of crashes of commercial airliners, money spent engineering them to be safer is unlikely to get much of a bang for the buck.

You started from a good premise, but veered off into the wrong conclusion.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Life rafts in airliners is a cruel, expensive joke, especially on the big jets.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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dolmansaxlil
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HOLY CARP!!!
Wait. There are life rafts on airplanes? Are you kidding me?

Let's say that whatever mechanical failure that caused your plane to come crashing down into the drink didn't cause the plane to explode on impact. Let's add to that the possibility that a group of people survive the impact of the water, manage to escape the plane, and get to open water. Is the bloody life raft going to jump out of the aircraft for them? And even if it does, I'm assuming it's inflatable. Cause you know, heaps of scrap metal being ripped from an airplane on impact isn't going to puncture it or anything.

Sheesh.
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

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