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Time to punch holes.
Topic Started: Apr 30 2008, 09:06 AM (397 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/...t_drilling.html
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
The Republicans would have a stronger card to play in the fall if they had been constantly clamoring for ANWR drilling. Still, a lot of fair-weather greenies will split off on this issue.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Quote:
 
What keeps these areas closed are exaggerated environmental fears, strong prejudice against oil companies and sheer stupidity.


Um..... no. This guy's getting his way and still he's not happy.

Many environmental laws have been severely weakened in the past 8 years. For the first time in our nation's history, the federal government has disallowed states to adopt regulations stricter than the national standards. The very definition of what can and cannot be protected under the Clean Water Act has been mangled by the SWANCC and Rapanos Supreme Court decisions. And, the Clean Air Act "initiatives" have really messed up our air quality. D.C. Government in particular has outright said that the reason our Air Quality Index is so low is because of lighter national standards. We're not alone on that list, either.

When this guy says "exaggerated environmental fears," what he really means is, "environmental regulations are getting in the way of our oil, and I think it's worth it to relax them in order to get prices back down." At least, that'd be a more honest way of saying it.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
What environmental regulations prevent us from drilling for oil in AWAR? There is specific legislation barring it but it is not part of environmental regulation as such. The environmental fears of drilling for oil in ANWAR are exaggerated. ANWAR is the size of North Carolina and the total area that would be used for drilling is the size of an airport.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
JBryan
Apr 30 2008, 09:23 AM
What environmental regulations prevent us from drilling for oil in AWAR? There is specific legislation barring it but it is not part of environmental regulation as such.

As for ANWR in particular I believe you are correct.

Quote:
 
The environmental fears of drilling for oil in ANWAR are exaggerated. ANWAR is the size of North Carolina and the total area that would be used for drilling is the size of an airport.


Yeah... I dunno about that. In terms of environmental impacts, the actual size of the facility isn't important at all.

https://www.fastcase.com/Google/Start.aspx?...0a5ffe20f040932

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access...s.&pqatl=google
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Do you really believe that drilling in ANWR would cause harm to the environment?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
JBryan
Apr 30 2008, 09:34 AM
Do you really believe that drilling in ANWR would cause harm to the environment?

I have no idea. Forgive me for pulling a Bill Clinton but it depends on your definitions.

I'd say it absolutely could cause a lot of serious damage. But there're so many factors that go into oil drilling, it's too difficult to say exactly what it would be.

And as for what you mean by "the environment," I doubt it'll affect me personally here in D.C., but I think you would agree that's not a good reason to dismiss any possible risk.

Sure, a mishap up there could really damage the environment. I don't know to what extent, other than that it'd be bigger than what you're suggesting. We're talking about a helluva lot of oil, afterall. The enviro-hippies use this issue as a banner for their cause and lot of it is fanaticism, but I think there are very legitimate reasons to be concerned.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
The caribou are delighted. But then they don't consume much in the way of petroleum products.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
By your logic we should not drill for oil anywhere. The places we drill for oil today pose a much greater risk to the environment than drilling in ANWR. Of course, you are being noncommittal about it to maintain your position but that is where it leads.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
JBryan
Apr 30 2008, 09:46 AM
By your logic we should not drill for oil anywhere.

Yeah, pretty much.

Don't get me wrong. Right now we need oil and thus we need to drill for it. But it is absolutley in our interest to get better at energy production, and find out how not to suck at renewables.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Mikhailoh
Apr 30 2008, 11:45 AM
The caribou are delighted. But then they don't consume much in the way of petroleum products.

Actually, the caribou would be most delighted with drilling.

Oil is warm. The pipes it flows through are warm. Caribou tend to gather around the Alaskan Pipeline because it does provide some warmth in winter, and it's one of the first places in the spring that had available forage.

Guys, I'm from an oil producing state. It wouldn't bother me if they drilled ANWAR, and punched holes off the Florida and California coasts every 5 miles.

The biggest impact on the environment will be the influx of Okies, cajuns, Texans and Canadians...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Jolly
Apr 30 2008, 01:59 PM

The biggest impact on the environment will be the influx of Okies, cajuns, Texans and Canadians...

Oh, lord - don't tell them THAT! Now we'll NEVER get to drill! :hair:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Mikhailoh
Apr 30 2008, 12:27 PM
Jolly
Apr 30 2008, 01:59 PM

The biggest impact on the environment will be the influx of Okies, cajuns, Texans and Canadians...

Oh, lord - don't tell them THAT! Now we'll NEVER get to drill! :hair:

Look at the bright side, the only ones the natives will be able to understand is the Canadians... :lol2:
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Free Rider
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Fulla-Carp
JBryan
Apr 30 2008, 09:34 AM
Do you really believe that drilling in ANWR would cause harm to the environment?

I am firmly against drilling in ANWR.

In TNCR I am a minority with this viewpoint, however. I feel like it is one of the last untouched areas and has abundant wildlife, an intact ecosystem. That plus the amount of oil reserves are paltry compared to our current and projected consumption. An oil spill up there would be devastating.

I think respect for the environment is declining as more and more people live removed from the natural world...only seeing the discovery channel where everything is right there.

Ok now that I've painted a target on my green ass let me have it. :P
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Its inevitable that we'll drill in the ANWR, its just a matter of time. Think of it as an extension of the strategic petroleum reserve.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
I'll add - Bush wanted to drill in the wildlife reserve back when oil was $20 a barrel. Sure makes him look like an idiot in hindsight.... of course there really is no angle from which he doesn't look idiotic.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Copper
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Shortstop
jon-nyc
Apr 30 2008, 05:27 PM
Its inevitable that we'll drill in the ANWR, its just a matter of time. Think of it as an extension of the strategic petroleum reserve.


If we don't get it the Chinese will.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
jon-nyc
Apr 30 2008, 03:35 PM
I'll add - Bush wanted to drill in the wildlife reserve back when oil was $20 a barrel. Sure makes him look like an idiot in hindsight.... of course there really is no angle from which he doesn't look idiotic.

Why? Wouldn't drilling back then have increased supply and put downward pressure on prices today? It occurs to me that he was using good foresight. Too bad the Democrats wanted to make a political issue out of it. I think it is they who do not come off so well in hindsight.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Apr 30 2008, 03:35 PM
I'll add - Bush wanted to drill in the wildlife reserve back when oil was $20 a barrel. Sure makes him look like an idiot in hindsight.... of course there really is no angle from which he doesn't look idiotic.

Not all oil is priced the same. I'm not sure of the quality of oil that North Alaska produces, but I'm sure it's closer to West Texas Intermediate than Saudi oil is.

Now, whether the price for the oil was $20, or $200, yes, we should have been drilling up there....in 2000, or 2008.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
It would have been idiotic to use up the reserve when oil is cheap. There's only 90 days supply for the world up there, I'm not sure the rate at which they'd extract it but I couldn't imagine it having much impact today if they had started in 2000.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
So....you're saying the United States is actually being very smart by using oil from around the world, while maintaining its own reserves?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Copper
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Jolly
Apr 30 2008, 06:43 PM
So....you're saying the United States is actually being very smart by using oil from around the world, while maintaining its own reserves?


Very good, I like that idea. We'll use everybody else's first.

And here I am watching Lou Dobbs who says the Chinese are beating us at everything.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Jolly
Apr 30 2008, 06:43 PM
So....you're saying the United States is actually being very smart by using oil from around the world, while maintaining its own reserves?

I'm not saying that that is the intention but it may well end up being the effect.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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