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Supremes uphold voter ID law.
Topic Started: Apr 28 2008, 07:12 AM (496 Views)
George K
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Finally
Court rejects voter ID challenge; no new grants

The Supreme Court, voting 6-3, on Monday rejected a constitutional challenge to Indiana’s law requiring voters to show a photo ID before they may cast a ballot. Three Justices said the evidence offered against the requirement in Indiana did not support a challenge to the law as written — that is, a “facial” challenge – and three others said the law only imposed a minimal and justified burden on voters. Three Justices dissented.

The decision, in the case of Crawford v. Marion County Election Board (07-21) and a companion case, was the only ruling of the day.

.....

The voter ID ruling may turn out to be a significant victory for Republicans at election time, since the requirement for proof of identification is likely to fall most heavily on voters long assumed to be identified with the Democrats — particularly, minority and poor voters. The GOP for years has been actively pursuing a campaign against what it calls “voter fraud,” and the Court’s ruling Monday appears to validate that effort, at least in part. The main opinion said states have a valid interest in preventing voting by those not entitled to do so, even if there is no specific proof of that kind of fraud in the state.

While the Court’s main opinion said it was “fair to infer that partisan considerations may have played a significant role” in enacting the photo ID law, it went on to say that that law was neutral in its application and was adequately supported by the justifications the state had offered.

Putting together the three votes of Justices who found the paate rticulart challenge to Indiana’s law wanting on the evidence, with the votes of the three dissenters, means, however, that a majority of the Court has not barred all future challenges to voter ID laws, provided future cases seek to test such laws as they were actually applied in a specific election. Still, the plurality opinion that announced the Court’s judgment – written by Justice John Paul Stevens — probably means that any such “as-applied” challenges would not be easy to make.
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- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
"The voter ID ruling may turn out to be a significant victory for Republicans at election time, since the requirement for proof of identification is likely to fall most heavily on voters long assumed to be identified with the Democrats — particularly, minority and poor voters."

Absolutely no secret that this is what Republicans wanted. Congratulations to them then on getting it.
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George K
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Finally
Having the person doing the voting prove that they are the person who they say they are. Imagine that!

Sheesh! It's not the Chicago way!
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Daniel
Apr 28 2008, 08:23 AM

Absolutely no secret that this is what Republicans wanted. Congratulations to them then on getting it.

Congratulations to the United States for protecting the election process necessary for a democracy.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
Yes, Republicans are famous the world over for wanting to protect democracy, and they have scored yet another victory in their quest for justice. :thumb:
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George K
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Finally
Yep, next thing you know, you'll have dead people voting!
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Got any links to any evidence of recent voter fraud (in Indiana) ?

Any?

Bueller? Bueller?

Because even the proponents of the law admit that they have no evidence of voter fraud.

Personally, I don't mind the voter ID laws ... as long as IDs are not difficult or expensive to get. But this is a two-stage process, and stage two will be increasing the cost and difficulty of getting the necessary IDs.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
We must have evidence of voter fraud to require proper ID? I think it is just a good all around common sense idea.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
People who have no id? In this day and age? Not buying it.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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George K
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Finally
QuirtEvans
Apr 28 2008, 10:39 AM
Got any links to any evidence of recent voter fraud (in Indiana) ?

Any?

Bueller? Bueller?

On a philosophical level, Quirt, do you feel it necessary that there be evidence of fraud to enact a law preventing that fraud? Do you have to have evidence that people are speeding on a highway to enact a speed limit?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Apr 28 2008, 07:34 AM
Yep, next thing you know, you'll have dead people voting!

Oh, no. Our fearless Supreme Court has fixed that problem! Now if they can do something about Secretaries of State illegally purging voter rolls, we'll be that much closer to utopia! :hat:
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Daniel
Apr 28 2008, 08:31 AM
Yes, Republicans are famous the world over for wanting to protect democracy, and they have scored yet another victory in their quest for justice. :thumb:

What are you on about, Daniel? Do you think that only the Republicans benefit from reducing voter fraud, or all Americans?

If you think that only Republicans benefit, then does that mean that you think the Democrats are not interested in reducing voter fraud?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Apr 28 2008, 07:43 AM
Daniel
Apr 28 2008, 08:31 AM
Yes, Republicans are famous the world over for wanting to protect democracy, and they have scored yet another victory in their quest for justice.  :thumb:

What are you on about, Daniel? Do you think that only the Republicans benefit from reducing voter fraud, or all Americans?

If you think that only Republicans benefit, then does that mean that you think the Democrats are not interested in reducing voter fraud?

I think that Republicans are interested in reducing votes for Democrats. They realized perfectly well that voter ID laws would have that result. QED.

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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
I have always had to show I.D. when I have gone to vote.

Perfectly acceptable and normal requirement at the assigned polling station.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
In a nation of 11 million illegal aliens, documenting your right to vote seems reasonable and prudent to me.

As far as poor and minorities? Well you have to have ID to drive or to get assistance. Please. They want all the rights, but none of the responsibilities.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Daniel
Apr 28 2008, 08:46 AM
ivorythumper
Apr 28 2008, 07:43 AM
Daniel
Apr 28 2008, 08:31 AM
Yes, Republicans are famous the world over for wanting to protect democracy, and they have scored yet another victory in their quest for justice.  :thumb:

What are you on about, Daniel? Do you think that only the Republicans benefit from reducing voter fraud, or all Americans?

If you think that only Republicans benefit, then does that mean that you think the Democrats are not interested in reducing voter fraud?

I think that Republicans are interested in reducing votes for Democrats. They realized perfectly well that voter ID laws would have that result. QED.

Your point is meaningless. Dems are interested in reducing votes for Republicans, and both parties are interested in increasing votes for the own party. So? It is how they do it, and what sort of policies they support to do so.

Why again don't you think Americans in general, and the political process as a whole, would not benefit from reducing voter fraud?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Apr 28 2008, 08:51 AM
In a nation of 11 million illegal aliens, documenting your right to vote seems reasonable and prudent to me.

As far as poor and minorities? Well you have to have ID to drive or to get assistance. Please. They want all the rights, but none of the responsibilities.

Absolutely. Everybody needs some kind of photo ID; if someone can't be bothered, or can't figure out how, to acquire proper ID, they probably shouldn't be casting any ballots.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
George K
Apr 28 2008, 10:43 AM
QuirtEvans
Apr 28 2008, 10:39 AM
Got any links to any evidence of recent voter fraud (in Indiana) ?

Any?

Bueller?  Bueller?

On a philosophical level, Quirt, do you feel it necessary that there be evidence of fraud to enact a law preventing that fraud? Do you have to have evidence that people are speeding on a highway to enact a speed limit?

Well, let's think about it from a more typically Republican point of view.

New regulations, under the Reagan regime, had to be justified. There had to be a very careful cost/benefit analysis. Every regulation comes with costs, and those costs had to be outweighed by real benefits, or the agency was not allowed to promulgate the regulation.

We know there's a cost to voter ID, and the cost isn't small. Time and effort and money for each person who doesn't have an ID, multiplied by several hundred thousand to a few million, depending on the state.

If there's no evidence of voter fraud, even when there's no ID law, there's no evidence of benefit ... other than the rather marginal benefit of giving some people comfort that a crime that isn't taking place REALLY isn't taking place.

So, using Reagan principles, how is it justified?

And, if the mere benefit of assuring the population that nothing wrong is happening is sufficient benefit to justify a large cost, let's require the installation of speed regulators on every car. Because some people are clearly worried about speeding, so let's inconvenience everyone in order to give them some assurance. There's really no reason a car needs to be able to go faster than 65, after all ... study after study proves, especially at that speed, that you can't accelerate out of an accident, and that slower speeds are safer.

So you're OK with that?
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Renauda
Apr 28 2008, 10:46 AM
I have always had to show I.D. when I have gone to vote.

Perfectly acceptable and normal requirement at the assigned polling station.

Again, I have no problem with that, as long as it's not difficult or expensive to get the ID.

But that's what the Supremes should have said.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
QuirtEvans
Apr 28 2008, 12:47 PM
George K
Apr 28 2008, 10:43 AM
QuirtEvans
Apr 28 2008, 10:39 AM
Got any links to any evidence of recent voter fraud (in Indiana) ?

Any?

Bueller?  Bueller?

On a philosophical level, Quirt, do you feel it necessary that there be evidence of fraud to enact a law preventing that fraud? Do you have to have evidence that people are speeding on a highway to enact a speed limit?

Well, let's think about it from a more typically Republican point of view.

New regulations, under the Reagan regime, had to be justified. There had to be a very careful cost/benefit analysis. Every regulation comes with costs, and those costs had to be outweighed by real benefits, or the agency was not allowed to promulgate the regulation.

We know there's a cost to voter ID, and the cost isn't small. Time and effort and money for each person who doesn't have an ID, multiplied by several hundred thousand to a few million, depending on the state.

If there's no evidence of voter fraud, even when there's no ID law, there's no evidence of benefit ... other than the rather marginal benefit of giving some people comfort that a crime that isn't taking place REALLY isn't taking place.

So, using Reagan principles, how is it justified?

And, if the mere benefit of assuring the population that nothing wrong is happening is sufficient benefit to justify a large cost, let's require the installation of speed regulators on every car. Because some people are clearly worried about speeding, so let's inconvenience everyone in order to give them some assurance. There's really no reason a car needs to be able to go faster than 65, after all ... study after study proves, especially at that speed, that you can't accelerate out of an accident, and that slower speeds are safer.

So you're OK with that?

Are you joking? After all the allegations of voter fraud and vote stealing in the last two presidential elections? There's no benefit? I disagree. There is a clear benefit.

Since you have to go to the poll and be on the list of registered voters, I see no issue in having to show id, nor do I think it is an undue burden to identify yourself as actually being that person.

Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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OperaTenor
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Pisa-Carp
The allegations of voter fraud in recent elections had much less[in scale] to do with ID than with caging or other forms of exclusion/disenfranchisement.

Just to clarify.....


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JBryan
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I am the grey one
It is telling to me that Democrats would be so opposed to such a common sense requirement and on so flimsy a basis that it might disenfranchise people for whom having proper ID would be somehow onerous. It is the rare person indeed who can do anything in this country's economy without ID that is not underground.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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OperaTenor
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Pisa-Carp
What is it telling you, JB?

;)



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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Apr 28 2008, 11:59 AM
QuirtEvans
Apr 28 2008, 12:47 PM
George K
Apr 28 2008, 10:43 AM
QuirtEvans
Apr 28 2008, 10:39 AM
Got any links to any evidence of recent voter fraud (in Indiana) ?

Any?

Bueller?  Bueller?

On a philosophical level, Quirt, do you feel it necessary that there be evidence of fraud to enact a law preventing that fraud? Do you have to have evidence that people are speeding on a highway to enact a speed limit?

Well, let's think about it from a more typically Republican point of view.

New regulations, under the Reagan regime, had to be justified. There had to be a very careful cost/benefit analysis. Every regulation comes with costs, and those costs had to be outweighed by real benefits, or the agency was not allowed to promulgate the regulation.

We know there's a cost to voter ID, and the cost isn't small. Time and effort and money for each person who doesn't have an ID, multiplied by several hundred thousand to a few million, depending on the state.

If there's no evidence of voter fraud, even when there's no ID law, there's no evidence of benefit ... other than the rather marginal benefit of giving some people comfort that a crime that isn't taking place REALLY isn't taking place.

So, using Reagan principles, how is it justified?

And, if the mere benefit of assuring the population that nothing wrong is happening is sufficient benefit to justify a large cost, let's require the installation of speed regulators on every car. Because some people are clearly worried about speeding, so let's inconvenience everyone in order to give them some assurance. There's really no reason a car needs to be able to go faster than 65, after all ... study after study proves, especially at that speed, that you can't accelerate out of an accident, and that slower speeds are safer.

So you're OK with that?

Are you joking? After all the allegations of voter fraud and vote stealing in the last two presidential elections? There's no benefit? I disagree. There is a clear benefit.

Since you have to go to the poll and be on the list of registered voters, I see no issue in having to show id, nor do I think it is an undue burden to identify yourself as actually being that person.

You're wrong. There's not a single substantiated allegation of voter fraud in Indiana, to the best of my knowledge.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
JBryan
Apr 28 2008, 12:21 PM
It is telling to me that Democrats would be so opposed to such a common sense requirement and on so flimsy a basis that it might disenfranchise people for whom having proper ID would be somehow onerous. It is the rare person indeed who can do anything in this country's economy without ID that is not underground.

I can't speak for other Democrats. But this will be the third time in this thread that I've said I'm not opposed to voter ID ... as long as it's not difficult or expensive to get.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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