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Abstinence programmes in US; For teens
Topic Started: Apr 26 2008, 09:02 AM (1,740 Views)
sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
US Abstinence policy not working?

Quote:
 
If we can learn to control the most basic of drives - the sex drive - for good, then we can control drugs, gangs, alcohol and abusive anger

Roger Norman
'Wonderful Days' abstinence programme


That seems a tad far-fetched.

I find it disturbing that these programmes that push for abstinence only, are not even teaching basic information about sexuality, STDs, contraception. And it's looking like that's not working.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
I refuse to contribute to this thread until you stop misspelling the word "programs."

^_^

"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
Dewey
Apr 26 2008, 10:20 AM
I refuse to contribute to this thread until you stop misspelling the word "programs."

^_^

Hey, the article was from the BBC. I was just goin' with the flow. We Canadians can swing both ways, you know. :hat:
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Riley
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sue
Apr 26 2008, 01:40 PM
We Canadians can swing both ways, you know.

That's why gay marriage was legalized here.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
Sue, you hit on a great point- people want to control the sex drives of other people. It says so right here. We are a die hard- rather die than listen to reason- country when it comes to sex. I'm not going to lie- there are times I envy you for not having to put up with this expletive deleted (many in fact). You see, now my countrymen will call me a traitor. It just never ends. :silly:
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blondie
Bull-Carp
Dewey
Apr 26 2008, 09:20 AM
I refuse to contribute to this thread until you stop misspelling the word "programs."

^_^

Moderator!
That's prejudice !!
Expel the holy guy!

:D ;)
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
^_^

Love ya, blondie.

:hug:
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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The 89th Key
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Waiting for marriage FTW!
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sue
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The 89th Key
Apr 26 2008, 02:30 PM
Waiting for marriage FTW!

^_^ Well, I guess that explains why you're not part of the 'drugs, gangs, alcohol and abusive anger' scene. :hug:
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The 89th Key
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Hey - speak for yourself! :D

I've taken "drugs" (mary jane), I was friends with various gang members in high shcool, I drink far more alcohol than a training marathoner should (including tonight)....but I do manage my anger pretty well. :biggrin:
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
That's because you don't have any.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I think the main reason I was so angry as a teenager was the lack of sex. Luckily I could drunk alcohol as a way of calming myself down.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
The 89th Key
Apr 26 2008, 04:30 PM
Waiting for marriage FTW!

And yet, you manage to criticize Clinton for lying.

It's all in the definitions.

:P

It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Luke's Dad
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Daniel
Apr 26 2008, 02:27 PM
Sue, you hit on a great point- people want to control the sex drives of other people. It says so right here. We are a die hard- rather die than listen to reason- country when it comes to sex. I'm not going to lie- there are times I envy you for not having to put up with this expletive deleted (many in fact). You see, now my countrymen will call me a traitor. It just never ends. :silly:

Wrong Daniel. We don't want to control anybody. I just want people to exercise a little self-control. Too many people don't want to have any control of their lives and would prefer to blame everything and all their problems on outside forces or issues rather than take responsibillity for their decisions and actions.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Luke's Dad
Apr 27 2008, 11:47 AM
Daniel
Apr 26 2008, 02:27 PM
Sue, you hit on a great point- people want to control the sex drives of other people.  It says so right here.  We are a die hard- rather die than listen to reason- country when it comes to sex.  I'm not going to lie- there are times I envy you for not having to put up with this expletive deleted (many in fact).  You see, now my countrymen will call me a traitor.  It just never ends. :silly:

Wrong Daniel. We don't want to control anybody. I just want people to exercise a little self-control. Too many people don't want to have any control of their lives and would prefer to blame everything and all their problems on outside forces or issues rather than take responsibillity for their decisions and actions.

I think the anti-sex-before-marriage argument is the wrong one to be having. I believe that what should be discouraged is sex outside of a stable relationship and promiscuity.
The idea of going out with a girl for two years without sleeping with her is more than a little unrealistic for most of us, and makes the proponents look like extremists, or completely out of touch with the modern world.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Luke's Dad
Apr 27 2008, 09:47 AM
Daniel
Apr 26 2008, 02:27 PM
Sue, you hit on a great point- people want to control the sex drives of other people.  It says so right here.  We are a die hard- rather die than listen to reason- country when it comes to sex.  I'm not going to lie- there are times I envy you for not having to put up with this expletive deleted (many in fact).  You see, now my countrymen will call me a traitor.  It just never ends. :silly:

Wrong Daniel. We don't want to control anybody. I just want people to exercise a little self-control. Too many people don't want to have any control of their lives and would prefer to blame everything and all their problems on outside forces or issues rather than take responsibillity for their decisions and actions.

Actually, I not only want people to be responsible for their own behavior, I also don't want to pay for their screw-ups.

There was areason for shotgun weddings. Too bad we've wussified into a nation that doesn't understand why they existed...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Apr 27 2008, 11:19 AM
Actually, I not only want people to be responsible for their own behavior, I also don't want to pay for their screw-ups.


Which is why it is essential that kids learn how to prevent pregnancies and STDs, that they know where to go for medical help/advice, that they are educated. Not just told to not have sex.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
Luke's Dad
Apr 27 2008, 07:47 AM
Daniel
Apr 26 2008, 02:27 PM
Sue, you hit on a great point- people want to control the sex drives of other people.  It says so right here.  We are a die hard- rather die than listen to reason- country when it comes to sex.  I'm not going to lie- there are times I envy you for not having to put up with this expletive deleted (many in fact).  You see, now my countrymen will call me a traitor.  It just never ends. :silly:

Wrong Daniel. We don't want to control anybody. I just want people to exercise a little self-control. Too many people don't want to have any control of their lives and would prefer to blame everything and all their problems on outside forces or issues rather than take responsibillity for their decisions and actions.

I looked at the quote in context. Here it is:

"Religious right

Roger Norman, a Texas lawyer, describes himself as being part of the religious right.

He runs an organization called Wonderful Days which does not receive government funding but teaches abstinence as part of the health curriculum in some local schools.

"I am convinced that abstinence is the only way for kids," he says. "You begin by teaching the consequences of bad behaviour and the benefits of proper behaviour and you do that in a way that a child can grasp.

"Self control leads to a happy, joyful life. If we can learn to control the most basic of drives - the sex drive - for good, then we can control drugs, gangs, alcohol and abusive anger."

Try as I might, I can't make any logical sense out of "If we can learn to control the most basic of drives- the sex drive- for good"

then we can control drugs, GANGS, alcohol and abusive anger.

The "self control" argument falls apart at "gangs". Gangs don't self control- clearly what he's doing is throwing up a laundry list of social ills that he relates to sexuality.

He IS talking about controlling people's sexuality IMO- if we can make it so that they don't have sex until marriage, none of these other problems in society will exist. That's a little far fetched. No drugs, no gangs, no alcohol, and no abusive anger because people remain abstinent until marriage? Or is it more likely that drugs, gangs, alcohol, and human nature are not going away anytime soon.

Here is my objection (surprise, surprise) : if you want people to "self control" they need to have information about birth control and STD's. This article clearly says they are not being told about birth control or STD's. If you want them to "self control" then give them the information they need and really should have.


Edit: I could have saved time and copied Sue's post.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Quote:
 
"Self control leads to a happy, joyful life. If we can learn to control the most basic of drives - the sex drive - for good, then we can control drugs, gangs, alcohol and abusive anger."


Self control, Daniel. Not controlling other people's sex drives. A world of difference from your statement of
Quote:
 
people want to control the sex drives of other people.
.

If more people were taught the consequences of their actions, and learned to take responsibility for their actions, many of our social ills would be helped. However, instead of teaching children (and adults) that they are responsible for their decisions, and will be held to account, then all we are doing is creating a whole new generation of victims.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Jolly
Apr 27 2008, 01:19 PM
Luke's Dad
Apr 27 2008, 09:47 AM
Daniel
Apr 26 2008, 02:27 PM
Sue, you hit on a great point- people want to control the sex drives of other people.  It says so right here.  We are a die hard- rather die than listen to reason- country when it comes to sex.  I'm not going to lie- there are times I envy you for not having to put up with this expletive deleted (many in fact).  You see, now my countrymen will call me a traitor.  It just never ends. :silly:

Wrong Daniel. We don't want to control anybody. I just want people to exercise a little self-control. Too many people don't want to have any control of their lives and would prefer to blame everything and all their problems on outside forces or issues rather than take responsibillity for their decisions and actions.

Actually, I not only want people to be responsible for their own behavior, I also don't want to pay for their screw-ups.

There was areason for shotgun weddings. Too bad we've wussified into a nation that doesn't understand why they existed...

When you use words like "wussified," I'm not sure what century you're living in, but it's clearly not the 21st.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
:popcorn:
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Free Rider
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Fulla-Carp
sue
Apr 27 2008, 10:23 AM
Jolly
Apr 27 2008, 11:19 AM
Actually, I not only want people to be responsible for their own behavior, I also don't want to pay for their screw-ups.


Which is why it is essential that kids learn how to prevent pregnancies and STDs, that they know where to go for medical help/advice, that they are educated. Not just told to not have sex.

what she said

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
sue
Apr 27 2008, 12:23 PM
Jolly
Apr 27 2008, 11:19 AM
Actually, I not only want people to be responsible for their own behavior, I also don't want to pay for their screw-ups.


Which is why it is essential that kids learn how to prevent pregnancies and STDs, that they know where to go for medical help/advice, that they are educated. Not just told to not have sex.

But there's a difference between education and advocation.

At one point in time in our culture, it was considered admirable to have self-control...that man could rise above his animal origins through moderation, societal manners and consideration of his fellow man or woman.

It was also taught to youngsters how a young gentleman or a young lady should behave.

Maybe I'm being a bit puritanical, but we have sent too many messages through too many media, that sex from what it should be and transform it into something tawdry, vulgar and with a whiff of the illicit. We have made women into nothing more than objects, a meat du jour.

Witness the plethora of 14-year olds dressed as hooker wannabes, wandering the walkways of almost any suburban mall.

Due to the nature of man, we will not stop young people from having sex. But wouldn't it be nice if we told them to wait a bit, rather than encouraging the act through an implied acceptance of it?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Jolly
Apr 28 2008, 04:26 PM
sue
Apr 27 2008, 12:23 PM
Jolly
Apr 27 2008, 11:19 AM
Actually, I not only want people to be responsible for their own behavior, I also don't want to pay for their screw-ups.


Which is why it is essential that kids learn how to prevent pregnancies and STDs, that they know where to go for medical help/advice, that they are educated. Not just told to not have sex.

But there's a difference between education and advocation.


Perhaps you mean "advocacy".

"Advocation" is variously referred to by dictionary sources as obsolete or archaic. Perhaps it's understandable why someone who isn't living in the 21st century might be more comfortable with forms that are generally viewed as archaic or obsolete, though.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Gee, and I thought lawyers were supposed to be the ultimate wordsmiths.

From Webster's:

advocation
One entry found.

advocate[2,transitive verb]

Main Entry: 2ad·vo·cate
Pronunciation: \-ˌkāt\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): ad·vo·cat·ed; ad·vo·cat·ing
Date: 1599

: to plead in favor of
synonyms see support
— ad·vo·ca·tion noun
— ad·vo·ca·tive adjective
— ad·vo·ca·tor noun

or the freedictionary.com :

Ad`vo`ca´tion
n. The act of advocating or pleading; plea; advocacy.

The holy Jesus . . . sits in heaven in a perpetual advocation for us.
- Jer. Taylor.





The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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