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Is It Yes, Or Is It No, Or Is It Rape?; New Laws on Withdrawn Consent
Topic Started: Apr 22 2008, 06:33 PM (253 Views)
QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/...iglarsh.int.cnn

"The crime of first-degree rape includes post-penetration vaginal intercourse accomplished through force or threat of force and without the consent of the victim, even if the victim consented to the initial penetration."

And thus, the five-second rule was born.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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George K
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Finally
Saw this the other day and was reminded of Illinois. IIRC, if the girl consents to an "intimate" relationship and the guy proceeds, if, at any time she changes her mind and says "no" it can be construed as rape.

Now, picture yourself an nice healthy 21 year old guy, with a nice healthy 21 year old girl. A couple of drinks, things get hot 'n heavy, and she say's "Let's do it." 30 seconds into "doing it," she says "No. Stop."

No. Way.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
To make matters worse, George, in this particular case, after approximately five seconds, he DID stop.

And was still convicted of rape.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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George K
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Finally
The law here should follow the rules of chess: you take your hand off the piece, the move stands.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Apr 22 2008, 10:40 PM
The law here should follow the rules of chess: you take your hand off the piece, the move stands.

Or in this case, you put your hand on the piece, the move stands.
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George K
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Finally
Found the story in Illinois:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/30/...ain565870.shtml


Quote:
 

SPRINGFIELD, Ill., July 30, 2003

A new rape law in Illinois attempts to clarify the issue of consent by emphasizing that people can change their mind while having sex.

Under the law, if someone says "no" at any time the other person must stop or it becomes rape. The National Crime Victim Law Institute said it believed the law is the first of its kind in the country.

Lyn Schollett, general counsel for the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault, said the law was important to make it clear to victims, offenders, prosecutors and juries that people have the right to halt sexual activity at any time.

"I think it will empower prosecutors in charging cases where the victim and the offender have a sexual history," she said.

But the director of the Victim Advocacy & Research Group in Boston said it would be hard to imagine courts not upholding a woman's right to withdraw consent.

"To me, it's demeaning," Wendy Murphy said. "It's like the old saying: 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.' I don't think it was broke."

The law was inspired by a California case involving two 17-year-olds who had sex at a party. The girl changed her mind about having sex, but the boy did not stop immediately.

He was charged with rape, and it took years for the courts to decide that he could be found guilty under California law. The California Supreme Court ruled in January that a man can be convicted if a woman first consents but later asks him to stop.

Lawmakers said they wanted to avoid the same kind of long legal battle in Illinois. Gov. Rod Blagojevich signed the law Friday but did not announce it until Monday.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
I saw that one yesterday, Quirt. I hope this gets fixed. I have no problem with the "no at any time means no" part of the law, but I have a big problem with convicting a guy who honored the request to stop within that time frame. It should be that if consent is withdrawn, there should have to be force or restraint to continue the act for it to be rape. Otherwise, those women who say "oh don't...oh stop...oh oh oh don't stop" will have a case in court.
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
QuirtEvans
Apr 22 2008, 06:33 PM
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/...iglarsh.int.cnn

"The crime of first-degree rape includes post-penetration vaginal intercourse accomplished through force or threat of force and without the consent of the victim, even if the victim consented to the initial penetration."

And thus, the five-second rule was born.

of course, it's entirely unenforcable since there will be no evidence of the crime in 99.9% of cases. How do you determine from physical evidence that a guy took a few seconds too long to withdraw his forces?

(unless a court is willing to convict based on one person's testimony against anothers with no corroborating evidence either way .... I would hope that is not the case as it would fly in the face of reasonable doubt.)

The cases where there *is* physical evidence (signs of a struggle) are probably legit crimes anyway.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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QuirtEvans
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Horace
Apr 22 2008, 10:19 PM
QuirtEvans
Apr 22 2008, 06:33 PM
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/...iglarsh.int.cnn

"The crime of first-degree rape includes post-penetration vaginal intercourse accomplished through force or threat of force and without the consent of the victim, even if the victim consented to the initial penetration."

And thus, the five-second rule was born.

of course, it's entirely unenforcable since there will be no evidence of the crime in 99.9% of cases. How do you determine from physical evidence that a guy took a few seconds too long to withdraw his forces?

(unless a court is willing to convict based on one person's testimony against anothers with no corroborating evidence either way .... I would hope that is not the case as it would fly in the face of reasonable doubt.)

The cases where there *is* physical evidence (signs of a struggle) are probably legit crimes anyway.

Quote:
 
(unless a court is willing to convict based on one person's testimony against anothers with no corroborating evidence either way .... I would hope that is not the case as it would fly in the face of reasonable doubt.)


I'd hate to tell you exactly how many cases are decided on just that basis. Think about every single domestic violence case, where both parties are injured somehow. Who started it, and who was acting in self-defense? Only the people in the room know.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
What if the man says to stop, and the woman keeps going? Is that rape, too?
Sam
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QuirtEvans
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pianojerome
Apr 22 2008, 10:39 PM
What if the man says to stop, and the woman keeps going? Is that rape, too?

Technically, yes.

Lotsa luck getting a jury to believe it happened, though.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Nobody ever got raped in an upper bunk.

The country has lost its collective common sense.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
pianojerome
Apr 22 2008, 07:39 PM
What if the man says to stop, and the woman keeps going? Is that rape, too?

I was going to ask that too. Now if you can just land that moneyed cougar you could be set with a civil suit.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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