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When galaxies collide; and we're not talking Fords
Topic Started: Apr 21 2008, 05:00 AM (2,350 Views)
The 89th Key
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Big Bang = Creation :woot:
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Some ideas...

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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The 89th Key
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And on the 8th day, Ed Gabel rested. :lol:
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Moonbat
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The 89th Key
Apr 21 2008, 06:28 PM
Big Bang = Creation :woot:

Perhaps, but if you look at that picture you'll notice the "Time begins" which makes any talk of a cause of that creation meaningless.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Moonbat
Apr 21 2008, 11:33 AM
The 89th Key
Apr 21 2008, 06:28 PM
Big Bang = Creation :woot:

Perhaps, but if you look at that picture you'll notice the "Time begins" which makes any talk of a cause of that creation meaningless.

Time is a human concept. How do you figure?
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua,

The real answer is we just don't know.

This all just theory.

Remember, on a cosmic scale we are less than microscopic in size. Our ability to see beyond our senses or that of the instruments we create is very limited to that of conjecture, imagination and faith in either a creator or our ability to reason through what we have labeled, logic and science.

The atheistic view is that of random existence with nothing beyond this physical life. I used to embrace that way of thinking but something was missing from this random existence that I desire with all my heart and mind. That is eternal life. I do not want to cease my existence. I want to live on beyond our physical universe.

I have a lot of Bach to learn after all and it is way too voluminous for me to handle within the scope of my physical existence.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mark
Apr 21 2008, 11:43 AM
The atheistic view is that of random existence with nothing beyond this physical life. I used to embrace that way of thinking but something was missing from this random existence that I desire with all my heart and mind. That is eternal life. I do not want to cease my existence. I want to live on beyond our physical universe.

And as a side benefit, all will be revealed. Then you'll know.

Moonbat - what I am reading says that The Big Bang began with all the material in the universe about the size of an atom. If that is so, doesn't that mean that it started in a single, very small space. If everything then is expanding out from that point, why isn't there a void in the middle of what should be roughly, spherical?
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Moonbat
Apr 21 2008, 03:33 PM
The 89th Key
Apr 21 2008, 06:28 PM
Big Bang = Creation :woot:

Perhaps, but if you look at that picture you'll notice the "Time begins" which makes any talk of a cause of that creation meaningless.

You can't disprove one theory with another theory, regardless of the 'scientific' basis of each.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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big al
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The simplest analogy I've heard (and it's an old one) is the universe is like a raisin cake which as it bakes expands. The raisins don't grow; the cake grows and so the raisins become farther and farther apart. That analogy predates the big bang theory and was devised to visualize the expanding universe as it began to be conceived in the 1920s-30s.

By the way, those are some fantastic photos, Mark. Excellent work.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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Mikhailoh
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big al
Apr 21 2008, 04:06 PM
The simplest analogy I've heard (and it's an old one) is the universe is like a raisin cake which as it bakes expands.  The raisins don't grow; the cake grows and so the raisins become farther and farther apart.  That analogy predates the big band theory and was devised to visualize the expanding universe as it began to be conceived in the 1920s-30s.

By the way, those are some fantastic photos, Mark.  Excellent work.

Big Al

'The Big Band Theory' - the universe is a swingin' place! A huge Stardust Ballroom if you will. ^_^
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Apr 21 2008, 04:07 PM
'The Big Band Theory' - the universe is a swingin' place! A huge Stardust Ballroom if you will. ^_^

...with Lawrence Welk just about to take the stand.

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Go go, hip daddy-o!
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
You really don't quite grok the swing thing, do you? ^_^
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Apr 21 2008, 04:22 PM
You really don't quite grok the swing thing, do you? ^_^

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What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
There you go.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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The 89th Key
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I prefer THIS "Big Bang Theory"

Posted Image

And more specifically:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image`

CBS at 8pm. :smokin:
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
That show keeps getting better and better in the writing.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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big al
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Bull-Carp
:clap: Best thing I've gotten out of a typo in awhile. :biggrin:

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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The 89th Key
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Mikhailoh
Apr 21 2008, 04:34 PM
That show keeps getting better and better in the writing.

It's actually true...it seems CBS has been doing well lately with their comedies (2 and a half men, how i met your mother, and the big bang theory).
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Moonbat
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Aqua Letifer
Apr 21 2008, 07:34 PM
Moonbat
Apr 21 2008, 11:33 AM
The 89th Key
Apr 21 2008, 06:28 PM
Big Bang = Creation :woot:

Perhaps, but if you look at that picture you'll notice the "Time begins" which makes any talk of a cause of that creation meaningless.

Time is a human concept. How do you figure?

The flow of time may well be fictitious but time as a dimension appears as real as the spacial dimensions.

Causation is bound up with time if you say time begins at event X by definition it becomes meaningless to talk about the cause of event X.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
"appears as real" ???

"appears"???

If time is real is has no beginning or end.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Moonbat
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Quote:
 

This all just theory.


There is no "just" attached to the term theory - not in a scientific context. Theories are not lesser facts, they are explanations and they are the very aim of the scientific endevour.

Quote:
 

Remember, on a cosmic scale we are less than microscopic in size. Our ability to see beyond our senses or that of the instruments we create is very limited to that of conjecture, imagination and faith in either a creator or our ability to reason through what we have labeled, logic and science.


We can't see atoms with our unaided senses but it's hopeless nonsense to claim that belief in atoms constitutes conjecture, imagination or faith (though the former two were invovled in our discovery of atoms). No one's ever seen that the atmosphere of venus contains clouds of sulphuric acid with their naked eyes, but again it's totally nonsensical to suggest that such a view constitutes faith.

I'm quite happy to accept that orthodox big bang theory is tentative but it's not because it's a "theory" and it's not because it's all "faith". It's because the equations of general relativity break down at the singularty that orthodox big bang theory predicts, and it's because we don't have a unified theory of quantum gravity.

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The atheistic view is that of random existence with nothing beyond this physical life. I used to embrace that way of thinking but something was missing from this random existence that I desire with all my heart and mind. That is eternal life. I do not want to cease my existence. I want to live on beyond our physical universe.

I have a lot of Bach to learn after all and it is way too voluminous for me to handle within the scope of my physical existence.


Whilst i sympathise with wishing to live forever, wishing something does not make it so.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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Moonbat
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Quote:
 

"appears as real" ???

"appears"???

If time is real is has no beginning or end.


Well yes appears, it appears that we exist in a universe with stuff in it. Now maybe space and time are ultimately approximate descriptions who's relations can be derived from a more fundamental theory - perhaps some kind of information theoretic view. But that moves further away from niaeve concepts of causation rather than rescuing them.

Your last statement is simply false - it's perfectly consistent to view the temporal (and spacial) dimensions as being in a sense real but also for them to be bounded. Space need not be infinite, time need not stretch back forever nor forward forever.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Whilst i sympathise with wishing to live forever, wishing something does not make it so.


Nor does it make it not so.

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Physics says otherwise.


How so?

Can you prove that this universe in which we exist is the one and only universe?
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Moonbat
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Quote:
 

How so?

Can you prove that this universe in which we exist is the one and only universe?


Time as a dimension immediately means bounds to that dimension are perfectly coherent things to talk about.

I don't understand your point about multiple universes, it seems quite plausible to suggest there are such things, but what does that have to do with the point that time need not necessarily be unbounded?
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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