| Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Carter breaks it down with CNN; Talks about his Hamas meeting. | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 21 2008, 04:57 AM (232 Views) | |
| Aqua Letifer | Apr 21 2008, 04:57 AM Post #1 |
|
ZOOOOOM!
|
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/04/21/carter.hamas/
|
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Apr 21 2008, 05:00 AM Post #2 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
Right. They will accept it, and then resume lobbing rockets over into Israel, just like with every other agreement. This was the hallmark of his presidency - he would be told things he wanted to hear, and he would believe them. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| Larry | Apr 21 2008, 05:06 AM Post #3 |
![]()
Mmmmmmm, pie!
|
So Carter said something. With his track record, we're supposed to pay attention to that? |
|
Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
![]() |
|
| Aqua Letifer | Apr 21 2008, 05:08 AM Post #4 |
|
ZOOOOOM!
|
Nahh, but in my opinion his take on the meeting is news-worthy.
|
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
![]() |
|
| Axtremus | Apr 21 2008, 06:37 AM Post #5 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
I take it your basic position is that of mistrust, of hopelessness -- you do not believe that it is ever possible for the Palestinians (or is it just Hamas?) to genuinely accept peaceful co-existence with Israel in the Middle-East. With that mind set, the only sensible outcome is either the elimination of Israel or the elimination of Palestine (or is it just Hamas) from the Middle-East. (Question: do you really want to wipe Palestine [or just Hamas] off the map?) Carter thinks there is still hope, so he keeps trying, he keeps communicating. BTW, don't just "see" only the Palestinians (or is it just Hamas) firing home-made rockets into Israel. You should realize that Israel also roll tanks and send bombers into Palestinian territories from time to time, as well as putting up new settlements. I'll bet you those tanks and bombers inflict more severe damage then the Palestinians' amateur rockets. I do not see either side holding the moral high ground as far as honoring agreements go (correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that you think Israel holds the moral high ground here). But I accept that supporting Israel in this Middle-East conflict is good for US interest. |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Apr 21 2008, 06:49 AM Post #6 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
It is not Carter's place to play at international diplomacy on behalf of the United States. Hamas's charter currently calls for Israel's destruction by force and rules out peace negotiations with it. Any agreement made by Hamas is worthless so long as this charter exists, therefore negotiations with them are worthless. http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| smithodude | Apr 21 2008, 06:50 AM Post #7 |
|
Junior Carp
|
I believe he's been negotiating the terms of release for an Israeli soldier called Gilead Shalit as well. The interfering old fool. The world needs more optimism |
![]() |
|
| Axtremus | Apr 21 2008, 06:56 AM Post #8 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
1. Has Carter ever claimed that he is doing whatever he's doing in the name of the US? (I thought this was discussed not long ago, no? Was there a conclusion?) 2. Do you believe that Hamas may change that charter "if President (Mahmoud) Abbas of the Palestinians and Prime Minister (Ehud) Olmert reach an agreement for peace, and if it is submitted to the Palestinians and the Palestinians approve it" ? If you don't believe that Hamas will ever drop that part of their charter, then my previous post (and question) applies. |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Apr 21 2008, 07:14 AM Post #9 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
Do you think Carter caused Hamas' heart to change to make that statement, or do you think that is the result of diplomacy that goes unpublicized, conducted through back channels? Carter is not just a private citizen, he is a former president interfering with US and Israeli policy. The fact that people cling to his statements with some sort of optimism that somehow he has triggered a 'breakthrough' is simply further proof of his usefulness to Hamas. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| Axtremus | Apr 21 2008, 08:08 AM Post #10 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
You seem to assume that Carter, whatever the heck he has been doing, is giving some people false optimism that Hamas might change. (I didn't say that Hamas has changed its heart and I haven't credit any one with Hamas making that statement, just in case you thought thats what I believe.) Let's try to settle on whether Hamas will change at all, ever, before we speculate who or what might lead to or cause the change, shall we? So, pretending that Carter doesn't exist for the moment, we get back to the earlier question: do you believe that Palestinians (or just Hamas) will change to genuinely accept peaceful coexistence with Israel in the Middle-East, ever? (It's really a simple question that can be answered regardless of what Carter does or doesn't do -- if you believe no, say no. If you believe yes, say yes. So, what say you?) |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Apr 21 2008, 10:09 AM Post #11 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
Not as long as we go over and say 'Oh, you poor guys.. what can we do to make you happy?' In other words it won't happen through accommodation of an organization that has as its platform the destruction of Israel. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| Axtremus | Apr 21 2008, 05:05 PM Post #12 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
So is that a "yes" or a "no"? ![]() It seems clear that you don't like the idea of giving Hamas any niceties (it's debatable whether what they ask about having Palestinians vote on some negotiated treaty constitutes a "nicety" or just plain old democratic principal that we Americans love and promote), and it seems you don't like the idea of "talking" to Hamas either. What's your proposal? Do you want to exterminate Hamas? (Using US military forces, or using Israelis forces as proxy?) Do you want to constantly put a gun to Hamas' head? (Constant US military presence in the region?) Or just ignore them? (Maintain status quo?) |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Apr 21 2008, 05:28 PM Post #13 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
If Jimmy Carter said the sun was shining, I'd stick my head out the door to look. :rolleyes: |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
| smithodude | Apr 21 2008, 05:35 PM Post #14 |
|
Junior Carp
|
Or build a bigger wall |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Apr 21 2008, 06:19 PM Post #15 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
Firstly, I don't believe we have much of any direct role to play that involves contact with Hamas. That is for Israel. I think what we are doing is trying to erode their support from Syria and Iran. Without that, Hamas does not exist. Until that time, we should not have American citizens handing them propaganda victories. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| George K | Apr 22 2008, 05:48 AM Post #16 |
|
Finally
|
Not so fast, Jimmy... Hamas rebuts Carter's claim of concession Hamas said yesterday it was prepared to accept a Palestinian state within 1967 borders, but contradicted a statement by former President Jimmy Carter that it would accept Israel's right to exist if that was the will of the Palestinian people. ... However, at a later press conference in Damascus, Mr. Mashaal backed away from the concession announced by Mr. Carter. "We accept a state on the [1967] line with Jerusalem as capital, real sovereignty and full right of return for refugees, but without recognizing Israel," Al Jazeera quoted him as saying. |
|
A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
![]() |
|
| « Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic » |









12:30 AM Jul 11