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Democrats Suck!; Health Savings Sabotage
Topic Started: Apr 19 2008, 03:24 PM (298 Views)
Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1208560038...emEditorialPage
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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George K
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Finally
"every HSA transaction be reviewed and verified as a legitimate medical expense"

Where does the line for bureaucrats start?
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
Have to disagree. Wall Street never met a money making opportunity that it didn't like.
Health Savings Accounts are just one more example. I don't need or want health care advice from people whose sole interest is making money. That kind of crap is the problem. It certainly isn't the solution.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
WTF are you talking about?

HSA are a private savings account. They have nothing to do with Wall Street.

Government is not the answer to everything Daniel.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mark
Apr 19 2008, 07:01 PM
HSA are a private savings account. They have nothing to do with Wall Street.

Managed by banks. Put on your thinking cap, Mark.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
You don't have a savings account Daniel?
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
Yes, I know in your Utopian fantasy world, everyone should "pay" hundreds of thousands of dollars for medical services when required out of $12 an hour salaries and so on. F that.

No other industrialized country has our health care "system" and citizens in those countries are better off. And their economies are not being bled dry. I'll take Germany's system, or Canada's system, or Switzerland's system, or any other responsible country's system. You can have your "health savings account".
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
It's going to be interesting to see how these jerks review this stuff.

We're talking a mountain of data here, with many dual purpose expenditures...I suppose they could dump it on the IRS, but I figure they don't want it.

Oh, and Daniel, get a clue....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
You really do not understand the HSA concept do you Daniel?

Nobody pays hundreds of thousands of dollars. The savings account is tax deductible and the interest grows tax free. It is coupled with a regular major medical insurance policy that pays for the big stuff.

It is used to pay deductibles and other medical needs not covered by the policy such as prescription drug and office co-pays etc. You can even use it for eye, dental or band aids.

It is a a very good concept and it works.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Eliminate the farce that is insurance from everyday medical expenses, and limit it to high cost, major medical procedures and emergencies and watch how fast the prices for medicine and medical procedures drops. All without having an undue effect on your care, or on the medical personnel's pocketbooks.

If a cat can have a kidney transpant, or a dog have open heart surgery for 10k, can you honestly explain to me why it costs 20 times that for a human? Or why does the same heart surgery that costs $200k here cost $6700 in India (with just as high of a success rate)? Insurance is a big part of both of these questions.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Apr 19 2008, 08:15 PM
It's going to be interesting to see how these jerks review this stuff.

We're talking a mountain of data here, with many dual purpose expenditures...I suppose they could dump it on the IRS, but I figure they don't want it.

Oh, and Daniel, get a clue....

Yeah, I'm the one who needs to get a clue. :lol2:

Our health care system sucks ass. Ask anyone in Canada if they'd like to trade. Go ahead. Ask.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
Luke's Dad
Apr 19 2008, 08:33 PM
Eliminate the farce that is insurance from everyday medical expenses, and limit it to high cost, major medical procedures and emergencies and watch how fast the prices for medicine and medical procedures drops. All without having an undue effect on your care, or on the medical personnel's pocketbooks.

If a cat can have a kidney transpant, or a dog have open heart surgery for 10k, can you honestly explain to me why it costs 20 times that for a human? Or why does the same heart surgery that costs $200k here cost $6700 in India (with just as high of a success rate)? Insurance is a big part of both of these questions.

Yep.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Daniel
Apr 20 2008, 12:36 AM
Luke's Dad
Apr 19 2008, 08:33 PM
Eliminate the farce that is insurance from everyday medical expenses, and limit it to high cost, major medical procedures and emergencies and watch how fast the prices for medicine and medical procedures drops. All without having an undue effect on your care, or on the medical personnel's pocketbooks.

If a cat can have a kidney transpant, or a dog have open heart surgery for 10k, can you honestly explain to me why it costs 20 times that for a human? Or why does the same heart surgery that costs $200k here cost $6700 in India (with just as high of a success rate)? Insurance is a big part of both of these questions.

Yep.

Then if you can agree with that, why not support HSA's? :shrug: That's exactly what HSA's are designed to accomplish. If people had their own money to spend for these procedures, the costs would go way down, and become much more affordable for everybody.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
I don't want a system of private insurance but I want a system of government insurance. I want a system like Germany has, like frankly every other industrialized country has.

I certainly don't want to have a system with no insurance at all- that would never work IMO.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Daniel
Apr 19 2008, 10:35 PM
Jolly
Apr 19 2008, 08:15 PM
It's going to be interesting to see how these jerks review this stuff.

We're talking a mountain of data here, with many dual purpose expenditures...I suppose they could dump it on the IRS, but I figure they don't want it.

Oh, and Daniel, get a clue....

Yeah, I'm the one who needs to get a clue. :lol2:

Our health care system sucks ass. Ask anyone in Canada if they'd like to trade. Go ahead. Ask.

I don't have to ask. I only have to watch them cross the border to enjoy fee-on-demand medicine. They can get what they want, when they want it.

Or would you rather they wait?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Health insurance was not intended to pay all medical bills. It was developed as a means to prevent people from being wiped out by a catastrophic illness.

Then the unions got hold of it and turned it into the monster it is today.

If you can't afford an HSA, then what you are saying is you can't afford to pay for your own healthcare, so someone else has to.



Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Luke's Dad
Apr 20 2008, 12:33 AM
Eliminate the farce that is insurance from everyday medical expenses, and limit it to high cost, major medical procedures and emergencies and watch how fast the prices for medicine and medical procedures drops. All without having an undue effect on your care, or on the medical personnel's pocketbooks.

Agree.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
What I am saying is that middle and working class wages in this country are stagnant (at best) and the true inflation rate over the last seven years has been out of control. Hell, 25 million Americans work full time and are working poor. Why on Earth should these people have to "pay" the grotesquely inflated "cost" of health care in this country today? They shouldn't. Other countries have systems that insure all of their citizens and don't have inflated health care costs sucking up what's left of their economy. We could do the same.

Except we won't. We will continue to have 48 million people uninsured. We will continue to let insurance companies jack up the price of health care. We will continue to let people be financially ruined. We will continue to let insurance companies deny care just because they feel like it. We're Americans. That's how we do things. :rolleyes2:

Ask people from countries other than the US who post on this board. I'll be surprised if you will find one who would trade their system for ours.
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LadyElton
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Not all of us suck. Some of us lick. :devilgrin:
Hilary aka LadyElton
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George K
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Finally
Our system is broken, no doubt. However, there are a lot of things in your post that are just plain wrong.

Quote:
 
Middle and working class wages in this country are stagnant

Inflation adjusted wages have risen for every group in the last 5 years.
Posted Image

Quote:
 
rue inflation rate over the last seven years has been out of control

I have no idea what you mean by "true" inflation, but inflation as defined by the US government is at a historic low for the last 5 years.
Posted Image

Quote:
 
25 million Americans work full time and are working poor

These are the same folks who have flat screen tv's, two cars and own their own homes.
"Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher."
Quote:
 
48 million people uninsured

That includes 12 million illegal aliens. According to the same Census report, there are 8.3 million uninsured people who make between $50,000 and $74,999 per year and 8.74 million who make more than $75,000 a year. That’s roughly 17 million people who ought to be able to “afford” health insurance because they make substantially more than the median household income of $46,326. About 20 million people are left.

Then consider the number who are between jobs, and therefore uninsured. 20% of the remaining (listed above) were uninsured for 3 months or less, according to the government.

So, although I agree that there are many things wrong, Daniel, perhaps looking at facts rather than what Michael Moore has told you talking points would make your argument more convincing.

A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
I did not insult you in any of my posts. Sigh.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Apr 19 2008, 10:29 PM
Inflation adjusted wages have risen for every group in the last 5 years.

That's not what your chart shows.
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Apr 19 2008, 10:29 PM
I have no idea what you mean by "true" inflation, but inflation as defined by the US government is at a historic low for the last 5 years.

Well, I don't mean "core inflation."
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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Apr 19 2008, 10:29 PM
Quote:
 
25 million Americans work full time and are working poor

These are the same folks who have flat screen tv's, two cars and own their own homes.

No, these are not people who own flat screen TV's, houses, and two cars. These are people who work full time and make $7-$12 an hour. They aren't buying flat screen TV's, houses, and two cars on that.

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Daniel
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HOLY CARP!!!
48 million people are uninsured. As opposed to 0 in other industrialized countries. Spin it how you want. Uninsured is uninsured.
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