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For Better or Worse?
Topic Started: Mar 7 2008, 10:50 AM (705 Views)
Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
ivorythumper
Mar 7 2008, 12:47 PM
We hate most in others what we hate most in ourselves.

Yeah, I disagree with that. Sounds like a great philosophical truth, but it's not, really.

You can be a nice guy or you can be an ass, but if someone's being a jerk to you, taking issue with that has to do with them being a jerk, not something you have against yourself.

Now, your self-control over how you react to jerks is of course a personal matter. How you choose to respond is individual. But if you choose to hate the person for it, it's still a trait of theirs you have a problem with. The choice is yours but the problem still lies in them.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Being complete within oneself simply means that we are free to love others, and if they love us in return that's wonderful, but if they don't, our whole world doesn't collapse. Love is its own reason. It's not this needy, clingy, "OMFG, I'm drowning and my whole life is wrapped up in you, and if you don't love me, or if we part ways, I'm going to die!!!!"

The needy, clingy sort of love is one that ultimately becomes unhealthy. It's unhealthy from the start. Some of the signs are jealousy, suspicion, isolating one's partner from friends, family, and extracurricular activities, and it gives way to obsession, abuse, manipulation, resentment, and eventually, slavery for both parties in the relationship.

As for hating what is within ourselves when it is reflected back to us in the actions of others: That's just not true. I despise child abusers and child molesters. I've never abused or molested a child, nor have I ever wanted to. That theory then, simply doesn't hold water.

Even if that theory were true, I am responsible for my actions and behavior, and for having a modicum of self-discipline and self-control. When someone else can't be bothered to exercise the same minimal level of consideration, then they probably should be smacked in the head for it.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Aqua Letifer
Mar 7 2008, 01:51 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 7 2008, 12:47 PM
We hate most in others what we hate most in ourselves.

Yeah, I disagree with that. Sounds like a great philosophical truth, but it's not, really.

You can be a nice guy or you can be an ass, but if someone's being a jerk to you, taking issue with that has to do with them being a jerk, not something you have against yourself.

Now, your self-control over how you react to jerks is of course a personal matter. How you choose to respond is individual. But if you choose to hate the person for it, it's still a trait of theirs you have a problem with. The choice is yours but the problem still lies in them.

You are missing the point. We can well hate thing in others that we don't hate in ourselves. But that does not argue against what we hate *most* in others is that what we hate in ourselves.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
ivorythumper
Mar 7 2008, 01:00 PM

You are missing the point. We can well hate thing in others that we don't hate in ourselves. But that does not argue against what we hate *most* in others is that what we hate in ourselves.

What's your reasoning behind that? I don't believe that's universally true. Sure, if someone ticks us off, it's more annoying if we're guilty of the same, but to say that's always the case is too much of a jump.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Frank_W
Mar 7 2008, 01:52 PM


As for hating what is within ourselves when it is reflected back to us in the actions of others: That's just not true. I despise child abusers and child molesters. I've never abused or molested a child, nor have I ever wanted to. That theory then, simply doesn't hold water.


You are missing the point as well. I did not say that everything we hate in others is because we hate it in ourselves. I can hate Hitler for killing the Catholics without ever wanting to kill a Catholic. I am talking about the visceral reaction that so many here seem so quick to vent.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Aqua Letifer
Mar 7 2008, 02:02 PM
ivorythumper
Mar 7 2008, 01:00 PM

You are missing the point.  We can well hate thing in others that we don't hate in ourselves. But that does not argue against what we hate *most* in others is that what we hate in ourselves.

What's your reasoning behind that? I don't believe that's universally true. Sure, if someone ticks us off, it's more annoying if we're guilty of the same, but to say that's always the case is too much of a jump.

If you don't see it, you don't see it. It's not my job to convince you. I'd just ask you to look at those on the board with whom you have the most conflict, and try to isolate what is it about them that pisses you off, and see if it is not a reflection of your own bad side that you'd rather not deal with.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
There's only one person here that I find highly offensive, and who I will usually avoid, and I can tell you beyond any shadow of a doubt, it's not because such traits are within me and therefore I am "lashing out," as it were. I think your theory is sometimes true and applicable to some situations, but not all situations, and it's not true across the board for every person.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Frank_W
Mar 7 2008, 01:09 PM
There's only one person here that I find highly offensive, and who I will usually avoid, and I can tell you beyond any shadow of a doubt, it's not because such traits are within me and therefore I am "lashing out," as it were. I think your theory is sometimes true and applicable to some situations, but not all situations, and it's not true across the board for every person.

I agree as well.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Mar 7 2008, 01:50 PM
sue
Mar 7 2008, 12:42 PM
If you base the quality of of a committed relationship on what goes on during a ceremony, you are missing what's really important, what really matters.

I've never known anyone to actually do anything like that. have you?

I've certainly heard of people who think a formal, church based wedding ceremony implies a deeper commitment to the relationship than others who choose to bond without benefit of clergy.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Frank_W
Mar 7 2008, 05:09 PM
There's only one person here that I find highly offensive, and who I will usually avoid,

Well screw you, hemphead. :tiki:
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
:lol2: And the horse I rode in on? :lol2:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Aqua Letifer
Mar 7 2008, 05:10 PM
Frank_W
Mar 7 2008, 01:09 PM
There's only one person here that I find highly offensive, and who I will usually avoid, 

I agree as well.

And double screw you, intellectual property pirate! :pirate:
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Luke's Dad
Mar 7 2008, 01:13 PM
Aqua Letifer
Mar 7 2008, 05:10 PM
Frank_W
Mar 7 2008, 01:09 PM
There's only one person here that I find highly offensive, and who I will usually avoid, 

I agree as well.

And double screw you, intellectual property pirate! :pirate:

Oh, go roll double zeros.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Don't make me break out half a peace sign. :lol2:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Frank_W
Mar 7 2008, 02:09 PM
There's only one person here that I find highly offensive, and who I will usually avoid, and I can tell you beyond any shadow of a doubt, it's not because such traits are within me and therefore I am "lashing out," as it were. I think your theory is sometimes true and applicable to some situations, but not all situations, and it's not true across the board for every person.

Just between you and me, who is it?

Maybe I can tell if you display the same traits. :P
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
:lol2: <_<
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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OperaTenor
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Pisa-Carp
Late to the party.

Coming to the conclusion that divorce is the lesser of two evils in a marriage is not inconsistent with the vow, or in the views of Christianity.

I am not particularly proud to be eminently qualified to speak on this subject....



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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
OperaTenor
Mar 7 2008, 01:18 PM
Late to the party.

Coming to the conclusion that divorce is the lesser of two evils in a marriage is not inconsistent with the vow, or in the views of Christianity.

OT, have you read the bible? All of it?

( :P )
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Frank_W
Mar 7 2008, 05:16 PM
Don't make me break out half a peace sign. :lol2:

:biggrin: Can you hear this? Can you? Well let me turn it up for you!Secret,Non Rick Roll Link for FrankW Only
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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OperaTenor
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Pisa-Carp
Dang, you beat my edit.

Yes, as a matter of fact, I have.

Even Leviticus and Numbers.....

:tongue:


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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
Luke's Dad
Mar 7 2008, 03:20 PM
Frank_W
Mar 7 2008, 05:16 PM
Don't make me break out half a peace sign.  :lol2:

:biggrin: Can you hear this? Can you? Well let me turn it up for you!Secret,Non Rick Roll Link for FrankW Only

:lol2:

Posted ImagePosted Image

:sword: :fallenhalo:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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taiwan_girl
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Fulla-Carp
kenny
Mar 7 2008, 01:33 PM
sue
Mar 7 2008, 11:27 AM
Aqua Letifer
Mar 7 2008, 12:15 PM
"You should have seen it coming" is the worst assumption to make.

No, I'd say the worst assumption is the one where you think marriage will change/fix some unpleasant behaviour in your partner.

BINGO!

Someone told me that when men get married, they want there wife to be the same as their girlfriend.

When women get married, they figure that they will be able to change their boyfriend once they get married.

Neither happens. :) Women change and men stay the same.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
I think it was David Burton who, on several occasions when this topic arose, pointed out that there are many a married couple out there who had no business getting married in the first place. A train wreck before it even got started.

He's right. At least nowadays they don't have to spend the rest of their miserable adult lives glaring at one another across the dinner table awaiting release through death. What a total absurdity and waste of lives.
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