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Say a few short prayers; Nathan and Mark are meeting
Topic Started: Mar 4 2008, 10:28 AM (990 Views)
apple
one of the angels
what an interesting point Mik.. and a good one.

i too, feel sorely hampered by my usual brevity. I am glad there are those who can so eloquently communicate. Eileen, you are a wordsmith extraordinaire.
it behooves me to behold
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mik, oh yes, the girls are flocking around him. Some are very sincere. All are scared. Most are young mothers who feel great empathy for Denise. They realize it could've been them. They realize that this wasn't a case of a person "being in the wrong place, at the wrong time". Denise was at home. If it could happen her it could happen to anyone. And just as my maternal instincts are on overdrive, I'm sure these girls just want to help him.

But there are one or two others that I suspect are ready to jump in and fill the void.

I doubt if anyone will ever compare to Denise tho'. She's died so young that she didn't have time to develop flaws. He remembers her as perfect. The whoever steps in, will have to deal with that.

Anyhow it's all speculation. But being at the in-laws isn't easy. FIL doesn't drink at all and doesn't tolerate alcohol in the house. Nathan can't even have a beer if he wants one. Not that we want him to become a raging alcoholic but.......

And I really think Nate needs his dad more than anybody.

We'll let you know what happens. Like you, I refrain from saying anything to Nathan or anyone in the family other than Mark. It's entirely up to Nathan.

I just worry and bug you guys here. :biggrin:
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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Eileen
Junior Carp
Keep bugging us .....we can take it and are happy to serve as your safety valve.

I don't know about begin a word smith. I just relate very closely with you.....Jared (my eldest) just turned 27 along with lovely wife Lisa. They have 2 children, Hayden 2.5 and Mackenzie 8 months. Makes everything feel close to home.

Just keep following your heart!

Eileen

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EHpianist
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Junior Carp
Peggy, you are doing the right thing. I'm sure that when he feels he has some sense of control over his new life and the kids have established patterns that will make day to day life easier, he will *want* to move out on his own with the boys. But clearly he needs you now, and to have expressed that is not usually an easy thing to say.

You are definitely doing the right thing, for this stage in his life.

Schnabel's advice to Horowitz: "When a piece gets difficult, make faces."
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Frank_W
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Right on, Elena. :thumb:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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M&M's
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Fulla-Carp
EHpianist
Mar 5 2008, 11:10 AM
Peggy, you are doing the right thing. I'm sure that when he feels he has some sense of control over his new life and the kids have established patterns that will make day to day life easier, he will *want* to move out on his own with the boys. But clearly he needs you now, and to have expressed that is not usually an easy thing to say.

You are definitely doing the right thing, for this stage in his life.

Perfecto!
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
My .02 cents...but y'all may not like it....

This is a lose/lose situation.

The best course is to live with neither set of parents. Make what arrangements have to be made, take people up on their offer of free daycare, or have the kids split days of the week with either set of grandparents. Maybe daycare during the week and weekends with the grandparents, I dunno.

But my grandmother told me a long time ago, no house is big enough for two families...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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justme
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Jolly
Mar 5 2008, 07:06 PM


But my grandmother told me a long time ago, no house is big enough for two families...

And I agree, wholeheartedly, in the normal scheme of things.

But, this.........

gosh, if he needs to live with us a couple of months or even a year.........

I'm there. And, believe it or not, I believe you would be too.
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Extraordinary circumstances call for extraordinary measures.

We in rich western countries are spoiled.
There are places where extended families thrive together.

Where there's a will there's a way.
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dolmansaxlil
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Peggy - I moved back in with my folks shortly after Liam was born. I hated the job I had, wanted to go back to school to become a teacher, and couldn't afford to do it any other way.

I stayed for two years. Yes, I missed my privacy, and I think my folks did, too. I had been out of the house for 8 years at that point. But I'm glad I did it. They have an amazing relationship with Liam - I never had that close relationship with my grandparents. And I think my relationship with them is better as a result.

I was happy when I moved out again, but it was, all in all, a positive experience.
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
many good points of view here

David and I have lived with my mother two times. The first time, we had been married for almost 2 years. My father dropped dead of a heart attack. My mother didn't even know how to write a check. She didn't work. We lived in that house for 2 years, helping with the house payment and utilities and letting my mom gain competency to be on her own. We saved a down payment during those two years and bought our first house. When we built our house in the town we live in now, our house sold the first day it was on the market. Oops. We moved back in with my mom, this time with two kids, for a little under 3 months while building our current house.

It was not ideal either time, but it wasn't awful either. The first time, I don't think she'd have made it in the house by herself...she married my dad when she was 15, and never woke up without him next to her. She was pretty disoriented by his sudden death. Will and my mom are best friends....I'm sure a lot of that dates to living there for a time.
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sarah_blueparrot
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Fulla-Carp
What a sad story about your parents, Deb :( How long were they together in total? How is she coping now?
Death is simply a shedding of the physical body like the butterfly shedding its cocoon. It is a transition to a higher state of consciousness where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, and to be able to grow.

- Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
Daddy died in 1982, so she has now lived a second lifetime without him. They had been married 43 years when he died. She is in the same house, relatively healthy and independent for an 84 year old woman. She learned what she needed to learn to get along on her own, and now we're wondering how she'll do if she ever has to give up being on her own. She may kick my teeth in at some point, if we have to encourage her to give up her independence.
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
Thank you, all, for sharing your stories.

They mean so much.

Denise pretty much handled everything at home. The bill paying, the kids, the house while Nathan worked to keep her home.

He has/had no idea what to do with bills etc....... Remember they married while he was still in college.

Right after they got married they moved in with the IL's which we discouraged. Nathan begged to move in with us and we said no.

This time I don't want to say no.

But I'll do what's best for all. But, I can't bring myself to say no.

I think it would be only temporary anyway.

He insists that he wants his own place and he doesn't want to "answer" to anyone.

We, as his parents, want him to move forward with his life and not be dependent on anyone.

Again, thank you.
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Peggy, it may seem off the topic, but was Nathan buying or renting the previous house? Obviously in either situation, I don't think I would be able to ever live there again if I were him. If he's renting, then it should be a pretty easy fix. If he's buying the house, not so easy.

Nathan can not continue to stay with the inlaws. In that direction lies madness. No chance to ever truly heal from the wound, and no chance to ever move forward with his life. Every day being constantly surrounded by memories and images of her. Those memories and images are important to remember and keep, but not to have around you every single moment. And unfortunately, as his only connection with the Goffs is Denise, it's going to be impossible to ever truly recover. However, at the same time , I don't think it's a good idea to have him at your home for more than several weeks. Nathan's had an awful lot of responsibility thrust on him now, and however much that sucks, it doesn't change the basic facts. He is now soley responsible for those children now. Don't get me wrong, you, Mark, the Goffs, his brother, and friends are going to be vitally important and he is going to need as much help from everybody as he can get. The boys are going to need as much help as they can get from all of you as well. However, ultimately the responsibility is on him. By living with the Goffs or with you, it can become all to easy to let that responsibility slide off of his shoulders and onto somebody else's.

Living with your parents can make it extremely easy to fall back into the role of them as the providers, them as the protectors, and they as the responsible adults. Not consciously, but it can and does happen. It will enable him to not have to make hard decisions, and can allow a bad situation to just linger on. Nathan needs to have to make those hard decisions.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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justme
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LD, I hear you. :hug:

Oh, and BTW, he was renting. They were getting ready to move in to a new place March 1. Which makes it all the more tragic.
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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