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| Say a few short prayers; Nathan and Mark are meeting | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 4 2008, 10:28 AM (989 Views) | |
| justme | Mar 4 2008, 10:28 AM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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to talk about Nate and the kids moving in with us. I'll be watching babies. cross your fingers, or whatever it is you do!! |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| kenny | Mar 4 2008, 10:32 AM Post #2 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I was going to suggest this but thought it was too personal and rude of me to suggest.
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| DivaDeb | Mar 4 2008, 10:35 AM Post #3 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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got it |
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| Frank_W | Mar 4 2008, 10:37 AM Post #4 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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May what's best for all concerned be done.
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| justme | Mar 4 2008, 10:50 AM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Nathan said when this happened "the Goffs need me more, Mom." To which I said "I understand. You do what you have to do. But, remember, when you need us, we're here." He been thinking about this for a couple of weeks and has said he wants to. But it'll hurt the Goffs. It will totally disrupt everything. Mark and I are remarrying on the 19th. We like our privacy. But, what can you do? You gotta do what you gotta do. So, I just pray for what's best for all but especially Nate and the babies. |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| Eileen | Mar 4 2008, 11:12 AM Post #6 |
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Junior Carp
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I will add my prayers to those of the others that what is best for all will come to be. From what you have written....sounds to me like you and the babes need each other. Not to mention Nathan. Ihope that it all works out for all concerned. Eileen |
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| RosemaryTwo | Mar 4 2008, 11:28 AM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Gasp! This is big, Peggy. All my best.... |
| "Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua | |
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| kenny | Mar 4 2008, 11:36 AM Post #8 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Who am I to say, since I came from such a rotten family? - but there seems to be almost an inevitibility to this. I mean, families (good ones anyway) are all about raising the kids. Right? If a parent is gone it seems almost natural that grandparents assume a larger role when they can. It's not like the job is over when your kid hits 18. Also I'd guess Nate's feelings of independence and "manhood" have to be flexible for this to work. I imagine some men are too proud, or feel they must do everthing because they feel they are supposed to. Forgive me if I'm stepping on toes, but is this a highly sensitive or taboo topic? Seriously. |
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| sarah_blueparrot | Mar 4 2008, 11:52 AM Post #9 |
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Fulla-Carp
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fingers are crossed
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Death is simply a shedding of the physical body like the butterfly shedding its cocoon. It is a transition to a higher state of consciousness where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, and to be able to grow. - Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross | |
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| justme | Mar 4 2008, 12:25 PM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Kenny, This is highly sensitive and is a very explosive subject for all concerned. Nathan can't just up and leave the in-laws because they really DO need not necessarily him, but the babies. Unfortunately, they're not getting along. And it's gotten to the boiling point. Sadly, Sue the MIL, is going to be the most hurt by this. Nathan broached her on it last night and she literally broke down fearing she'd never see the kids again. Of course, she'll see them as often as she wants but it's a real fear. I feared that in the beginning when Nate went to stay with them. Living with your in-laws is never a good situation and is made worse when the in-laws child isn't there to buffer things. Also, their family is very different then ours. They are a good family. Good kids, good morals etc....... They raised Denise. They're just different than us mostly when it comes to affection and they're not as tolerant as we are on other issues that I won't get into because that's really explosive. Mark suggested Nathan visit friends up in Tennessee for a couple of weeks to get away from it all. Get away from everyone telling him what to do. I think it's a great idea but I'm afraid the friends in Tennessee are going to try to convince him to move there. Which is all the rage. That's basically it. While living there he feels he has to answer to them and explain every decision. Also, there's all the anger that's going around. It's just not good. It wwouldn't be ideal here either. I'm sure Mark and Nate will butt heads. Mark and I are used to being empty nesters and this may be TMI but skinny dipping in the pool if we want to. I'm not getting younger. Two small children are a lot to handle. I took them to the grocery store yesterday. I'm not used to it anymore and parenting has changed. I hate to see the kids keep being uprooted too. Most of all I want him with us because I think it will be easier for him to move on with his life if he's with us and not the in-laws. Rick's already giving him a difficult time over some of Denise's old friends being "after him". Ideally, he needs to be on his own when he's ready. but between figuring out what to do with his job, etc..... along with the grieving the poor boy can't think straight. So, say your prayers or think happy thoughts. I still believe that with the babie this young and Nathan needing his parents, he's best off here. But I'm not saying anything. I'm trying to keep my mouth shut. So, I go on at length here
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| Dewey | Mar 4 2008, 12:36 PM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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This is what family is all about. But I'm just going to throw a few things out on the table, that should at least be talked through... Are you talking about a relatively short-term arrangement, or a permanent situation? Is it possible that you & Mark can provide a lot of support to Nate and the boys, without having them move in with you? Granted, you can't provide the same level of support if you're not literally under the same roof, but is it possible that it may not be healthy, for all parties involved, to rely that heavily on each other long-term? Please don't think I'm being insensitive - actually, I'm thinking in the exact opposite direction. Is it possible that all parties will develop such a tight reliance - and here, I'm talking socially/psychologically, not materially - that people will not be able to heal and move on as strongly as they should. Put bluntly (and I mean "bluntly" only in words, not in sentiment), is it possible that you all are considering this as a sort of crutch to avoid dealing with all of the issues inherent in your loss, and the pain of letting go and moving forward. Crutches are vital, and positive things, if employed for the appropriate length of time and in the appropriate manner. Despite the nobility behind the effort, it's very possible that if taken too far, resentment can build up among you - all of you - over such a situation. Resentment over lost privacy, lost autonomy, etc., all being dumped on top of the resentment of having had such a wonderful person taken away from you all. It's possible that such a solution would be no solution at all, and wouldn't ease problems more than it may create new ones. I don't know if this is the reality of the situation or not. And I'm not saying that the idea is bad. My own family has some experience with multiple generations living under the same roof, for similar if less tragic reasons of mutual support. I'm just saying that all of these kinds of issues had better be discussed, frankly and openly, and with some definitive parameters and timeframes decided, before deciding to do it. In any case, I keep sending you all my love and support, whatever you decide. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| sarah_blueparrot | Mar 4 2008, 12:38 PM Post #12 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I send you both - all - happy thoughts. I hope some of them get there. I'll double the order for this week
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Death is simply a shedding of the physical body like the butterfly shedding its cocoon. It is a transition to a higher state of consciousness where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, and to be able to grow. - Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross | |
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| Phlebas | Mar 4 2008, 12:43 PM Post #13 |
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Bull-Carp
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I'll say some prayers, and wish you all the best. |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| justme | Mar 4 2008, 12:52 PM Post #14 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Dewey, For now it would be short-term. We want Nathan to be able to move on with his life. He'll be a great single parent. We have no doubts. But with the kids being as small as they are (2 years, Noah, 8 months, Adam) he's struggling. And he has so many other issues. Simply going back to work has been a struggling. Adam at 8 months gets on his nerves. And, trust me, Adam's a great baby. Sleeping through at night from 9 to 7. We want Nathan to eventually get re-married. We don't think it would be healthy for Nathan for his world to revolve around the kids. What happens when the kids grow up? Nathan has to have other outlets. These are just my thoughts. I don't know what's right. But I see Nathan stressing over stuff that he shouldn't be stressing over. The FIL isn't an easy man to live with even at the best of times. Nathan can't come and go as he pleases with or without the kids. FIL questions every thing he does. And then he lectures him if he disagree with it. I do believe Nate may want to move away from the area permanently someday. That'll break my heart but if it makes him happy........ But then if it ends up being long term, so be it. Whatever is healthiest and best for him and the kids. Also, they want the kids in daycare. Nathan is adamant about keeping the kids out of daycare for as long as possible. Denise didn't want them in daycare and he worked 3 jobs to keep them out of daycare. Our church has offered him free daycare and he hasn't taken them up on it. The IL's keeping harping on getting them into daycare. Nathan wasn't raised in daycare. Anyhow..... It's awful. No one wants to see anyone hurt. But, dang, someone's going to get hurt and Nathan's been hurt enough. I hate to see him go through more hell than he's needs. I still hate the guy that did this to us. I'm trying not to. But I have been able to begin to pray again. |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| M&M's | Mar 4 2008, 12:57 PM Post #15 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Reading your last past Peggy, I think you are worrying about things too far ahead in time. Decisions you may make now are decisions that can be changed once the situation changes. |
| My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D | |
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| justme | Mar 4 2008, 12:57 PM Post #16 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I just re-read all that and none of it makes sense even to me. I simply want what's best for Nate and the babies short term and long term. I try to put it in God's hands, heck. I have no choice. It is in God's hands. And then I doubt there is a God. And if there is, I can't believe he's making anyone suffer anymore than they already have. Sorry to sound like I'm whining. I guess I am whining. hugs everybody. I'm going to go lay down while the babies are still napping. Love you |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| Frank_W | Mar 4 2008, 01:02 PM Post #17 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Peggy.... So much love. Hard decisions, difficult choices, still so much emotion and grief... Just know that you are loved very much. I firmly believe that through the outpouring of love and support you have received, God is telling you that HE/SHE/IT loves you. Very much.Great Love.
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| sarah_blueparrot | Mar 4 2008, 01:21 PM Post #18 |
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Fulla-Carp
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It's not whining, it's being concerned. You know you can rant and talk to us as much as you want to. Although it's a sad subject it's always good to hear from you because we want to know how you're getting on.
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Death is simply a shedding of the physical body like the butterfly shedding its cocoon. It is a transition to a higher state of consciousness where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, and to be able to grow. - Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross | |
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| kenny | Mar 4 2008, 01:57 PM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Sorry, I forgot Nathan was living with his inlaws. My gut reaction is that his bio parents are a better fit for Nathan than her parents. You raised him and the bonds are stronger. Your home and family will be more familiar and comfortable for him, also his improved mental state will rub off on the boys. You are Nathan's flesh and blood His inlaws are not. They are to the boys but not to Nathan. I think grown adults living together will require not just super duper flexibility but super duper communication, even about sensitive stuff, especially about sentive stuff. I think that personal things (like still being able to skinny dip) are important and you all should talk about and work out logistical arrangements so y'all get as much privacy and freedom as can be arranged. (Y'all don't have a back house or a way to convert a garage to a bedroom or something for him?) My 2 cents. |
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| sue | Mar 4 2008, 02:04 PM Post #20 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I like what Kenny said. I also think that, assuming this would be a temporary situation (I can't imagine Nathan wanting to live with his parents for toooo long), that you would really need to keep that uppermost in your minds, so as to not get overwhelmed with the prospect. From everything you've said, it does sound like the best place for the babies right now, and that has got to be the biggie in this decision, I would think. Maybe a compromise could be reached, re the daycare thing. Daycare part time, even just one or two days a week could bring you some much needed peace.
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| kluurs | Mar 4 2008, 03:05 PM Post #21 |
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Fulla-Carp
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The ideal is for Nathan to be close - but to have independence as well...It is good for him to work - and have structure - but at times, he's going to need some time by himself. I'm not sure how that all works - but he's got great loving parents - so that's a good place to start. He certainly can't live where he and Denise lived...too painful. For all of you, give yourselves permission to be human - emotions will be bouncing around for a long time to come. While working 3 jobs was difficult before, what Nathan must do now is much harder - being a good dad with everything else going on - much tougher... Frankly, all of you have a lot to carry - I only hope friends, church people and others keep helping as well... |
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| M&M's | Mar 4 2008, 03:06 PM Post #22 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Much love for you Peggy... you guys are in my prayers!!
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| My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D | |
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| Eileen | Mar 4 2008, 06:51 PM Post #23 |
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Junior Carp
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Such a tough situation! As I sit here trying to write the words that will help you make your way through the decisions....I keep erasing what I write. It all sounds wrong somehow. If I somehow put down words that don't sound quite right....please forgive me. I remember when you wrote that Nathan had decided to move in with his in laws. He said they seem to need him more. What a kind soul he has, he reacted in the moment to ease others pain even when he was in enormous pain himself. I am still impressed with him beyond imagination. I remember at the time, worrying about his FIL. I was married for 9 years to a county sheriff. I recognize the personality type that is drawn to that job. The words control, strict rules (laws), and an underlying anger would accurately describe most of the officers that I knew during those years. Most of them had compensating characteristics too, but in situations of extreme stress....the anger was the predominate characteristic. I was worried about Nathan being accustomed to being his own man living with someone used to being in control. I didn't say anything at the time......just didn't feel comfortable doing so. I am sure that Nathan is feeling the need to re-establish some independence, which is totally understandable and yet not having the emotional strength to fight for it. His gentle heart must really be feeling his MIL's pain at her fear of losing touch with the boys. Yet, he still feels the need to get some distance and control of his own. Tough, tough, tough! I am sure with your guidance he will make his way through it. Reassuring his MIL, asserting himself, and establishing boundaries all with your help. You are so sensitive to his need for support and seem to be balancing it with preserving his need for autonomy. I am not sure that I could do the same. I don't know if my words have been any help at all. Know that I will pray with all my heart for you and Nathan to find your way through this. Keep your heart centered on Nathan and the boys and you will find the right path. I trust in that completely. Eileen I am now posting this with some trepidation......know that I post because my heart reaches out to you....I can't help but see my son and grandchildren in the same situation....posting through my tears. ...... |
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| justme | Mar 4 2008, 07:23 PM Post #24 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Thank you. You, Eileen, have expressed how I feel better than I could. I have nothing against the FIL. He's a good man. But, he's a hard man. Bitter. Angry. And a control freak. Has been a cop for 25 years and was hard and bitter before this happened. He's been good to Nathan but to a limit. He's accused Nathan of flirting with one of Denise's best friends. And that's ridiculous. It's not a soft household. It's cold. And it was cold before. MIL is a gentle soul but totally submissive. That's why Denise was so sweet and unique. She had her mother's gentle soul, but she was pretty tough too. You can tell that by how she reacted in such a horrific situation. I'm thinking if he moves back it'll be for short term. We really do want him to have his own place. But right now, he's in no condition to run a household or make any major decisions. I feel bad for the MIL and try and will continue to try to make it easier for her. It's really sad. Thank you for your prayers and kind words. Thank you everyone.
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| Mikhailoh | Mar 4 2008, 07:39 PM Post #25 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I have refrained from commenting on any of this, not because I don't care, Peggy, but because I am by nature a colossal kibbitzer. I think it best that you and your family find your own answers, so I stay pretty much out of that. But one thing I have suspected all along is that Nathan will be, after a very short while, almost beseiged by women attracted to the situation and with genuinely loving hearts. Some of them may very well be Denise's friends. Because he is young and because he has the boys to think of, he may well be ready to date before others think it appropriate. I know the young heal a lot faster. God love him, I hope he is not alone a long time and can find someone wonderful when he's ready. As wonderful as that would be for him, it might be better if he were not at the in-laws. That would be an awfully difficult thing for them to see and could cause some major friction. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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6:17 AM Jul 11