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Totally not politically correct....; don't open if you might be offended
Topic Started: Jan 1 2008, 06:26 PM (2,474 Views)
Moonbat
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Pisa-Carp
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But all this could be in our mind. Surely, you see the validity in that?


That merely defines the universe as our mind, otherwise it makes no other difference.

Suppose there is a man and he's perfectly normal but he doesn't believe his left arm is part of him. He says he understands that he can control the arm, he says that he understands that it's attached to him, he says he understands that it grew along with him, but he says it's not part of him.

What are we to make of this man? Initially you think well clearly he has some delusion, but let us think a bit more carefully. What exactly is he wrong about? He doesn't actually seem to be denying anything real, he doesn't deny he can control the arm, he does not deny any of the biology, so what is he denying? He is merely asserting that his identity does not include the arm.

Now i don't think this man is making an error, i think his attitude is not useful, i think his attitude can be traced to some specific neurological cause but i do not think he's making a mistake. If someone wears a watch or a pacemaker or has a false leg, is that part of them? What criterea determines whether or not something is included in someone's identity or not? There is no answer to this question because identity is nothing more than a construct, it is an invention. It is a useful fiction.

I think we can choose what our identity is. I think we can say i don't consider the arm me, i consider just this bits me, or i consider the brain me or i consider my memories to be me, or indeed stranger things:

I consider the universe to be me. Now that is strange is it not? I am the universe? Everything i see is part of me, every percept, every structure everything is me. Of course really i haven't said anything at all! Consider starting the other way and moving the opposite direction:

Everything is in my mind. There is no physical world, there is no planet, there are no stars, there is no sun, no gravity, i have no body, all of it is just my mind which somehow exists of itself. The stuff i see is just mind-stuff. But now i notice something interesting for i can influence what's in this mind-world but i do not have omnipotence, some things just seem to act a certain way. I can move mind-objects around, but i notice that if I place a mind-object in the mind-air and open my mind-fingers it appears to accelerate towards the mind-planet that appears to be beneath my mind-body. How interesting! Indeed the more i look at this mind-universe the more i realise it has a kind of structure. I start to come up with hypothesise for what this structure is, by watching all these mind-entities i come up with relationships between them- ah look mind-liquid seems form if you take mind-ice and put in the mind-sun. I also notice that there are mind-people out there in my consciousness, and these mind-people act as if they have minds too! Fascinating! It seems that my mind contains other minds.

This progression of comprehension of my mindscape continues and will inevitably result in a picture that is identical to the scientific description of the modern world. The only difference is that i am defining myself to be the universe, or God or whatever else you want to call it. There is nothing interesting to this idea it is nothing more than a trick.

Sollipcism is realism with an ego-problem.

Now perhaps you will say ah yes but you don't know your hypothesise for sure. Perhaps the relationships you notice are not as you think, perhaps the mind-people that appear to have minds themselves, that act as-if they are conscious are infact not. Perhaps these laws you notice, these relationships that you think are accurate are not so, perhaps conservation of mind-energy is not the case and that there are exceptions, perhaps if you were able to somehow zoom out and see more of the nature of your mind/ the universe/existence you would see something entirely different! You would see you were plugged into the Matrix or that this is all some dream of a 7th dimensional armadillo or that really the universe is part of giant marble being played by unfathomably large aliens.

Perhaps. But all we have to go on is the information available to us, all we have to go on is how things appear-to-be. We must use the information we have available (and update our views as new information emerges), we can no better than that. That is what knowledge is, it is not certainty, it is not dogmatic truth it is the best bet given the available information. That is the best we can aim for. And if you want that then listen to science, because that's what science is.

Damnit now i'm totally off-topic. I blame you Tom!
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Happy New Year, Moon.

All the best for the coming year and more.

I hope you finish your Ph.D. soon so you can get a real job and spend even more time here at TNCR. :lol:
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Moonbat
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Happy New Year to you as well. :)
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
ivorythumper
Jan 7 2008, 02:16 PM
Jeffrey
Jan 6 2008, 10:43 PM
IT: "You are mixing Greek and Latin."

The word you are looking for is "macaronic", as in "macaronic neologism".

With satiric or mocking intent, it is sometimes ok to mix Greek and Latin roots, though not usually. 

jon's basic point is correct - the people here protesting the loudest are the same ones to get upset at "political correctness" in other cases (gays, blacks, etc).

I assure you, Jeff, that is not the word I was looking for.

You seem entirely confused about the criticism of political correctness. No one I know who is opposed to political correctness is in favor of mocking any group of people. It is a very civil idea to minimize offense to all people and to treat them with respect. That has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with healthy relational interactions. People who intentionally give offense are rude. The whole notion of PC is just some attempt to recover civility against the general loss of moral norms in a subjectivist/relativistic morality perpetuated since the Enlightenment. Not a bad thing in its intention, but a poor substitute and a rhetorical club in lieu of true respect.

How many really, really funny jokes offend nobody? Give me laughter every time. I'd even rather have people laugh at me, and not with me, than not laugh at all. Only for a short period, obviously, otherwise I'd be forced to stamp my foot jolly hard and get quite upset, actually.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
I find that lying flat out on the floor, pounding my fists, shrieking, and kicking my feet really hard, works a lot better, John. :baby:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Moonbat
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Quote:
 

How many really, really funny jokes offend nobody?


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0npR64qy2qY

Edit: Actually I'm sure there are people offended by the violence, i just wanted an excuse to post the sketch. :sombrero:
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Jan 7 2008, 09:03 PM

How many really, really funny jokes offend nobody? Give me laughter every time. I'd even rather have people laugh at me, and not with me, than not laugh at all.

Good point, John. The way to really be funny is to make yourself part of the joke, at least some of the time.

The really unfunny people are the ones that can make jokes and comment about others but never see anything funny about themselves.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Moonbat
Jan 7 2008, 08:10 PM
Quote:
 

How many really, really funny jokes offend nobody?


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0npR64qy2qY

That would have given Mary Whitehouse a conniption, if the mad old b!tch wasn't already dead. You can't say 'Nipple' on television, and as you know gratuitous violence is at the root of much of today's evil.


Edit - Yes, it's wonderful. :lol:
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
Which is why I collect blonde soprano jokes

hit me with your best shot boys, I can take it

:P
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
I went to High School with a kid whose name was Knipple.
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
I went to school with a Fink, a Gross, and a Fuchs

lots of potential there
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
I went to school with a fella named Harry Balls. (No, I'm not joking.)
My dad went to school with a guy named Donald Duck.

A guy I work with, knew a girl named Happy Nobbs.

And people wonder why kids grow up to kill their parents.... :tongue:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Frank_W
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Moonbat
Jan 7 2008, 08:10 PM
Quote:
 

How many really, really funny jokes offend nobody?


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0npR64qy2qY

Edit: Actually I'm sure there are people offended by the violence, i just wanted an excuse to post the sketch. :sombrero:

:lol2: That was great!
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
TomK
Jan 7 2008, 08:15 PM
The really unfunny people are the ones that can make jokes and comment about others but never see anything funny about themselves.

If Hitler could but have seen the comic potential in those funny riding pants and the ludicrous moustache we'd all have been saved a lot of trouble. He could have been one of the really great English Music Hall acts.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
I love Hugh Laurie
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Optimistic
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HOLY CARP!!!
DivaDeb
Jan 7 2008, 08:24 PM
I went to school with a Fink, a Gross, and a Fuchs

lots of potential there

I went to school with a Gross, and I taught a Fuchs.

I also went to school with a Wimp.
PHOTOS

I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week, sometimes, to make it up.
- Mark Twain


We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
-T. S. Eliot
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George K
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Finally
I went to medical school with a Finger.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Frank_W
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George K
Jan 7 2008, 11:33 PM
I went to medical school with a Finger.

He wasn't studying to be a proctologist, was he? :hair:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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George K
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Finally
Frank_W
Jan 7 2008, 10:55 PM
George K
Jan 7 2008, 11:33 PM
I went to medical school with a Finger.

He wasn't studying to be a proctologist, was he? :hair:

You're close, very close.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
for years head of urology in my hosp was goldwater.


apropos the cartoon that started the thread, just got this joke in email....

In the winter of 1956, Thelma Goldstein from Brooklyn, treated herself to her first real vacation in Florida. Being unfamiliar with the area, she wandered into a restricted hotel in North Miami.

'Excuse me,' she said to the manager. 'My name is Mrs. Goldstein, and I'd like a small room for two weeks.'

'I'm awfully sorry, 'he replied, 'but all of our rooms are occupied.'
Just as he said that, a man came down and checked out.

'What luck,' said Mrs. Goldstein. 'Now there's a room.'

'Not so fast, Madam. I'm sorry, but this hotel is restricted. No Jews allowed.'

'Jewish? Who's Jewish? I happen to be Catholic.'

'I find that hard to believe. Let me ask you, who was the Son of God?'

'Jesus, Son of Mary.'

'Where was he born?'

'In a stable.'

'And why was he born in a stable?'

'Because a schmuck like you wouldn't let a Jew rent a room in his hotel!'
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Moonbat
Jan 7 2008, 08:10 PM
Quote:
 

But all this could be in our mind. Surely, you see the validity in that?

...

I think we can choose what our identity is. I think we can say i don't consider the arm me, i consider just this bits me, or i consider the brain me or i consider my memories to be me, or indeed stranger things:

I consider the universe to be me. Now that is strange is it not? I am the universe? Everything i see is part of me, every percept, every structure everything is me. Of course really i haven't said anything at all! Consider starting the other way and moving the opposite direction:

...

Some where in that continuum is something along the line of "I consider the the father, the son, and the holy ghost me" :)

Funny video you linked to, BTW. :lol:
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ycul
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Junior Carp
jon-nyc
Jan 5 2008, 08:17 AM
ivorythumper
Jan 4 2008, 01:32 PM
jon-nyc
Jan 4 2008, 08:51 AM

But the deophilic reference was key to the humor!



:tsktsk: You are mixing Greek and Latin. It would be theophilic if anything.

Good catch! (that'll teach me not to make up words)

Keep making them up Jon - the English language wouldn't be half as rich as it is today without that creativity. Sod the pedants :smooch:
How now, brown cow.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
bachophile
Jan 7 2008, 09:23 PM
apropos the cartoon that started the thread, just got this joke in email....

In the winter of 1956, Thelma Goldstein from Brooklyn, treated herself to her first real vacation in Florida. Being unfamiliar with the area, she wandered into a restricted hotel in North Miami.

'Excuse me,' she said to the manager. 'My name is Mrs. Goldstein, and I'd like a small room for two weeks.'

'I'm awfully sorry, 'he replied, 'but all of our rooms are occupied.'
Just as he said that, a man came down and checked out.

'What luck,' said Mrs. Goldstein. 'Now there's a room.'

'Not so fast, Madam. I'm sorry, but this hotel is restricted. No Jews allowed.'

'Jewish? Who's Jewish? I happen to be Catholic.'

'I find that hard to believe. Let me ask you, who was the Son of God?'

'Jesus, Son of Mary.'

'Where was he born?'

'In a stable.'

'And why was he born in a stable?'

'Because a schmuck like you wouldn't let a Jew rent a room in his hotel!'

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Now that's what I call humor. And I might add that there are certain people and groups that IMNSHO deserve to be made the butt of humor.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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sarah_blueparrot
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Fulla-Carp
Great post, Moonbat, even if it did make my head spin!

Hi Lucy, how are you?
Death is simply a shedding of the physical body like the butterfly shedding its cocoon. It is a transition to a higher state of consciousness where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, and to be able to grow.

- Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross
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ycul
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Junior Carp
I'm great thanks Sarah. Don't know what the weather's like where you are but here it's crazy. Have you ever been to the Chesil Bank? It's almost high tide and me and my friend are on our way over to the beach for a game of chicken - the waves are enoooooooooormous! :hair:
How now, brown cow.
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