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| Benazir Bhutto is dead | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 27 2007, 06:14 AM (1,428 Views) | |
| kathyk | Dec 31 2007, 01:41 PM Post #51 |
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Pisa-Carp
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A unilateral decision to invade: No. A concerted, multi-national effort to root out al qaeda and bin Laden: Yes. And post 9-11 we had ample international support to do just that. We had a good start in Afghanistan, too. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| kathyk | Dec 31 2007, 01:43 PM Post #52 |
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Pisa-Carp
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(just wanted to insert your quote, since it sort got lost with the page turn. BTW, "chicken little hawks" is exactly what I had intended to type. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| George K | Dec 31 2007, 02:01 PM Post #53 |
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Finally
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First of all, I never said unilateral. Secondly, an invasion of Pakistan would have worked really well in October of 2001, or even two years later. The United States and who else invades Pakistan? India? Uh huh, sure. What nations would have co-operated with that? The French? Nope. THe Germans? Wrong again. The Brits? Too many Muslims there. Perhaps the Aussies - they have their share of AQ in the southwestern Pacific. THe Russians? GMAFB. Oh, and there's that pesky issue of invading an unstable country that has nukes. You can't be serious. Speaking of Chickenhawks, John Adams was probably my favorite, with Thomas Jefferson running a close second. Who's yours? Franklin Roosevelt?
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| ivorythumper | Dec 31 2007, 02:07 PM Post #54 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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You do an admirable job of handwringing, K -- really, an admirable job.
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| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 31 2007, 02:08 PM Post #55 |
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MAMIL
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I tell you what, if a violent overthrow of a Pakistani government coincided with the election of Ron Paul we could be in deep sh!t. Of course, income tax would soon be lowered, so nobody would mind too much. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| JBryan | Dec 31 2007, 02:19 PM Post #56 |
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I am the grey one
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Kathy, you say some of the darnedest things. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| HRC | Dec 31 2007, 02:20 PM Post #57 |
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Advanced Member
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Hmmm, if things don't work out here in November maybe they could use some help over there. |
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| kathyk | Dec 31 2007, 02:22 PM Post #58 |
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Pisa-Carp
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True enough about invading. However, a lot could have been done besides a direct iinvasion of Pakistan to stem the al qaeda tide, like finishing business in Afghanistan rather than creating another failed state in Iraq that was sure to (and indeed did) create another AQ breeding ground. And, certainly international pressures have been and could have have been brought to bear on Pakistan. Do really think France relishes the idea of a nuclear holocaust in the mid-East. They'd be a lot closer to the fallout than we are. And most certainly, no one else in the region is all too excited about the idea. We, however, have lost all credibility in the region, not to mention in the international community because of our massive miscalculation about Iraq. From a rather prescient article of last month: With Iraq Obsession, Bush is Now Losing Pakistan Bush has misused Sept. 11, 2001 to pursue an almost cult-like fanaticism about Iraq to the exclusion and destruction of almost every major national security, military, strategic, defense and intelligence mission of the United States. The Iraq war has become a trillion-dollar drain on every other field of battle and the functional equivalent of a direct attack against the United States Army, to which he has caused a generation of damage that will take a decade for his successors to repair. . . . Americans are dying in order to buy time for a reconciliation this Iraqi government does not want, is not seeking, and will not achieve in this deadly status quo. The quagmire in Iraq and grave damage to our mission in Afghanistan continues. The escape of Osama bin Laden and resurgence of al Qaeda continues. The ability of Iran to exploit the Bush blunders in Iraq continues. The damage to our military, the ugly divisions in our nation, and the global loathing of our president are escalating. Of course, the real war to kill bin Laden and destroy al Qaeda is failing because the obsession with Iraq has stolen manpower, money and unity that is necessary to win this war, and this is the one television ad Democrats should run throughout America. When one field of combat becomes a trillion-dollar drain in the desert swamp of Iraq, that blunder becomes a devastating and pulverizing trillion-dollar drain from every other field of battle, . . . The inevitable result is the virtual surrender to the enemy of both sides of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, which ensures the comeback of the Taliban, the regrouping of al Qaeda, the triumph of poppy farmers and drug lords, the financing of our enemies and the corruption of governments throughout the region. By effectively surrendering both sides of the most vital border in the war that matters the most, Bush brings more corruption, terrorism and instability to Afghanistan, and force-feeds these rising dangers to the military dictatorship of the nuclear state of Pakistan. This military dictatorship of Pakistan has long been a supporter of the Taliban, has long given protection to Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, and has tolerated or participated in nuclear proliferation violations that put North Korea and Iran to shame. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| kathyk | Dec 31 2007, 02:25 PM Post #59 |
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Pisa-Carp
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JB, come clean, are you the Koolaid kid? ![]() JB, George, et al: Would it really be so painful admit that George Bush screwed up? Even just a little teeny bit? |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| George K | Dec 31 2007, 02:36 PM Post #60 |
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Finally
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Nah, why don't you go first? |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Ayatollah Khamenei | Dec 31 2007, 02:37 PM Post #61 |
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Junior Carp
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Invade Pakistan! Brilliant! My plan is falling into place! BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA! |
| Allah'u Akhbar! | |
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| JBryan | Dec 31 2007, 02:39 PM Post #62 |
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I am the grey one
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Invading Iraq was a brilliant move and will soon pay off in real dividends in the war against Al Qaeda. Invading Pakistan or miltary operations of any kind there has to be the dumbest goddamn thing I ever heard. I can just imagine if Bush had decided to put our entire military in Afghanistan tramping all over the mountains on the border with Pakistan, creating more enemies than friends on both sides with our size 13 EEE footprint how we would be hearing now how he took his eye off the ball in Iraq. He would have been excoriated for stirring things up in Pakistan, a country which had a stable government that was being undermined by our presence and threatened to allow nukes to fall into the hands of Islamic radicals. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| kathyk | Dec 31 2007, 02:41 PM Post #63 |
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Pisa-Carp
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For what it's worth, I just read that India claims it could take out Pakistan's nuclear capabilities in minutes with non-nuclear, precision, deep penetration bombs. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| JBryan | Dec 31 2007, 02:43 PM Post #64 |
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I am the grey one
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India claims a lot of things and yet it still skirmishes with Pakistan in Kashmir. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| kathyk | Dec 31 2007, 03:05 PM Post #65 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Well, just like Israel could take out Iran's nuclear capabilities, it's a pretty serious decision to go forward with such a plan. It's not like you can go in, take em out, and go home and call it a day. There's gonna be some fallout (of the non-nuclear sort - at least if they were lucky enough to get the nukes). |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| Jolly | Jan 1 2008, 07:08 AM Post #66 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Bushwa. They don't have the technology for a clean kill against a hardened, deep target. The people who do, form a very short list. They are: 1. United States of America BTW, there is no number 2... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Axtremus | Jan 1 2008, 07:21 AM Post #67 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Jolly! Where have you been? ![]() Happy New Year! Yeah, USA is #1 !!!!11111!!!1!
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| Jolly | Jan 1 2008, 07:36 AM Post #68 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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I attended a wedding in Florida, and was busy shocking the little ladies at the local country club. Most haven't rubbed elbows with a real man in years...
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| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 1 2008, 07:48 AM Post #69 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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I don't think that's really called an elbow .... |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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12:14 AM Jul 11