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| Use of Taser on disruptive store customer question | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 22 2007, 01:21 AM (731 Views) | |
| Daniel | Dec 22 2007, 01:21 AM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Use of Taser on disruptive store customer questioned By LYDA LONGA Staff Writer DAYTONA BEACH -- Can running your mouth off at a police officer during a confrontation in a crowded store get you blasted with a Taser? It happened last month when a Daytona Beach police officer stunned a yoga instructor. The officer used her Taser when the teacher refused to pipe down inside the Best Buy store on West International Speedway Boulevard. Some human rights and civil liberties experts say a Taser, and the 50,000 volts its twin projectile probes deliver, should never be used in a situation like that. But Daytona Beach's police chief said the verbal lashing his officer got and the way her commands were ignored gave his officer every right to use her weapon. The incident reflects a growing international debate over Taser use. Last month, after six people who were stunned died in the United States and Canada, a United Nations committee said the use of Tasers can be a form of torture. Law enforcement advocates counter that stun guns are safe, essential tools that save officer lives and protect the public. It was Nov. 26 when 35-year-old Elizabeth Beeland of Ormond Beach stopped at the store to purchase a CD player for her father, she told The Daytona Beach News-Journal before refusing to speak more about the incident. Beeland's shopping trip ended up with a ride to the Volusia County Branch Jail, charged with two misdemeanors -- one for disorderly conduct and the other for resisting a police officer without violence. Beeland's attorney entered a plea of not guilty in the case and now it will be up to the State Attorney's Office to determine whether to prosecute. In a report police are required to prepare after deploying their Tasers, Officer Claudia Wright said she used her weapon on Beeland because the woman was "verbally profane, abusive, loud and irate." Beeland pointed her finger "towards my face" and was waving her arms, the officer wrote. But is that against the law? And is yelling at a cop considered enough resistance to merit the use of a Taser? According to an American Civil Liberties Union representative in Orlando, yelling at a police officer and even cussing one out is constitutionally protected speech. And both the ACLU and Amnesty International USA say this incident likely could have been handled differently, adding that Taser use has become too casual and too common among police officers. Police Chief Mike Chitwood said if a Taser had not been available, his officer likely would have used other weapons to subdue Beeland. "I was never raised on Tasers," the chief said. "I used nightsticks and slapjacks." The chief said Wright initially approached Beeland under the assumption a credit card had been stolen. In the end, it was determined Beeland was using her own card and had committed no crime. But according to Wright's report -- the officer declined comment for this story -- Beeland yelled to the point of disrupting business at the Best Buy and she would not comply with the officer's commands. Wright warned Beeland she could be arrested and ultimately, could be shot with the Taser, unless she calmed down, the report shows. Wright, at the store investigating another matter, was called over by a Best Buy cashier that afternoon after Beeland -- who was about to pay for her item with a credit card -- suddenly left her transaction unfinished and walked outside. The cashier apparently thought the card was stolen because of Beeland's sudden exit, the report indicates. When Wright caught up with Beeland just outside the glass doors, Wright said, Beeland began yelling at her, even at one point using the "F" word. The officer said she asked Beeland to calm down. She then asked Beeland to step inside the store so it could be determined whether the credit card left with the cashier was hers. Once inside, Wright states Beeland kept yelling at her and causing a disruption. She says Beeland's screaming drew a crowd of patrons. Wright said she told Beeland if she didn't calm down, she would be arrested. Finally, Wright warned Beeland if she didn't quit the commotion, she would have to deploy her Taser. A tape from the store's surveillance camera shows Beeland motioning with her hands and talking to Wright. She is seen slowly backing away from Wright as the officer advances. Then, in one fell swoop, the tape shows Wright reaching for the Taser gun and shooting Beeland in the abdomen. She crumpled to the floor. The entire confrontation inside the store took less than a minute, the tape shows. Police Department policy states an officer can deploy his or her Taser "for the purpose of subduing a violent, noncompliant or combative subject." Another section titled "Use of Force," says the Taser may be deployed when an officer believes the person presents a threat to the officer or to others "in the event that lesser force options are ineffective." The Taser also should be deployed to prevent the escape of a "criminal suspect," and when a "subject actively resists arrest or detention by violence or threat of violence." Beeland, although not compliant, was not acting violently, according to the officer's report. However, Chitwood said his officer had been flagged down under the assumption Beeland may have stolen a credit card. The fact Wright said Beeland refused to comply only further fueled the situation, Chitwood said. "The fact that she (Beeland) was resisting and not following commands being given by a uniformed officer, that means that officer eventually was going to get hurt," Chitwood said. "Claudia Wright did not wake up that morning and say, 'I think I want to tase someone today.' "The woman's actions caused this to happen," the chief said. A News-Journal review of all Taser incidents by Daytona Beach police in November shows officers used the weapons 10 times. Beeland's was the only incident that did not involve violence or a fleeing criminal suspect. Officials with the ACLU and Amnesty International USA say other tactics should have been used, especially because Beeland was not acting violently or threatening the officer in any way. "In my view, a Taser should be used only as an alternative to a gun," said Glenn Katon, director of the Central Region of the ACLU in Orlando. "Is yelling (at an officer) enough resistance to cause someone to be Tasered? "People are getting killed with Tasers," he said. Taser use has become so commonplace, Katon said, that officers no longer employ other training tactics they've learned to subdue people. "I certainly don't want to see an officer get hurt, but a cop should have enough training to be able to use something other than a Taser to calm someone down," Katon said. Jason Disterhoft, a human rights campaigner with Amnesty International USA, said a Taser should be used when lethal force is the only alternative, "not just when somebody refuses to comply with an order. "The force used should be proportionate with the threat posed," Disterhoft said. Chitwood said Taser critics don't understand the types of situations police encounter. "Everybody has their opinion, but at the end of the day none of the people who have an opinion walk in that officer's shoes," Chitwood said. That afternoon when Beeland suddenly walked away from her transaction, leaving her credit card behind at the cash register, she had received an upsetting telephone call from her husband about their child, said Beeland's attorney, William Chanfrau Jr. Distraught, she walked outside to speak to him more privately, forgetting for that moment about her card and her purchase, he said. "She fully intended to go back inside and finish making her purchase," Chanfrau said. lyda.longa@news-jrnl.com |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 22 2007, 09:03 AM Post #2 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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That cop is a douchebag. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Larry | Dec 22 2007, 09:32 AM Post #3 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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The cop was doing her job. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Copper | Dec 22 2007, 09:52 AM Post #4 |
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Shortstop
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You can watch the video here: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Co...ntentId=5279448 It's not obvious in the video that the police officer is being threatened. But at the time she thinks the customer is trying to bolt after being caught with a stolen card. Watch the video, the spokesman says the police officer was following policy. I can believe that. I’m not sure it was out of line. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| pianojerome | Dec 22 2007, 09:52 AM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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So, why didn't she say to the officer: "I just received an emergency phone call about my child, and I will finish the transaction in a few minutes when everything is settled." In all honesty, we don't know what she said... the reporter didn't really say. So who knows if the officer is a douchebag, or if the customer is a douchebag, or if they both are, or if neither is... there's so much missing from the article. |
| Sam | |
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| Jolly | Dec 22 2007, 10:00 AM Post #6 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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You get loud with a cop, and you get a warning. You stay loud with a cop, you get tazered. The chief is right...in the old days, they'd have grabbed you up, slapped the cuffs on you and any resistance would have been met by with a P24 whupping you about the body. Some people don't know when to quit the silliness and have a little respect for authority. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Phlebas | Dec 22 2007, 12:42 PM Post #7 |
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Bull-Carp
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I agree with Jolly. They need to teach civics again. A lawful order is a lawful order. Don't obey it, and you could wake up with fewer teeth in a not so nice cell. Hope the silly woman learns a lesson from this. |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| QuirtEvans | Dec 22 2007, 12:56 PM Post #8 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Yeah, as much as I hate to say it ... When a cop tells you to do something, do it. Don't get angry, don't get loud. Just cooperate, and sort it out later. When someone doesn't cooperate readily, the cops are not in a position to know whether you're going to get violent with them. And, if someone (the cop) is putting their personal safety at risk on a daily basis, they have a right to take a safe approach ... or sooner or later the law of averages will catch up with them. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| sue | Dec 22 2007, 05:54 PM Post #9 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Completely ridiculous. Cops are getting way too trigger happy with tasers; it's so much easier to just push the button on one of those, than to deal with the situation in another way. In a situation like this, there were surely other methods of subduing or controlling this woman that should have been tried. I guess the story of the Polish guy at the Vancouver airport recently hasn't been news where you are, but it's a big story here. Guy was tasered, and is now dead. He was confused, and distraught, and they just tasered him because that was the easiest route to take, and they didn't understand him. I guess they didn't expect him to die. What if this woman had died? Would that have been ok? |
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| Larry | Dec 22 2007, 06:23 PM Post #10 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Well Sue, if the woman had had any sense she'd have calmed down and explained things to the cop instead of what she did. So if she's too ignorant and too self absorbed to understand that the world doesn't revolve around her and the cop might have some concerns about her safety as well, and she chooses to continue acting like she did, then.... if she dies, she dies. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| sue | Dec 22 2007, 07:02 PM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yeah, she was being a tool, and yes, people need to get a grip; I quite agree with all that. But I am concerned that law enforcement folk are turning to the taser too quickly; surely they are still being trained to subdue people with other methods, if the circumstances suggest it. |
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| Jolly | Dec 22 2007, 07:17 PM Post #12 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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I'm sure they reach for the tazer too quickly, sometimes. It's easy, and it works. But it's not easy to subdue someone. I was working a small rural hospital years ago, when the phone rang with a screaming nurse on the line...some guy od'd on whatever had just proceeded to whip the ER doc and two nurses. At that point in my life I was still a pretty good man, benched about 250 and squatted twice that amount. When I came through the trauma room door, I nailed that cat with the best right cross I had, and threw his butt on a gurney. Before he could get up, I jumped on top of him and put my knees on his shoulders and grabbed the side rails. I was tickled to see the cops come piling in, 'cuz that dude was getting close to tossing me off, and that was after the doc hit him with 40mg Valium, IV push. Sometimes, folks just don't act like you think they would... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| sue | Dec 22 2007, 11:06 PM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Fair enough. |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 23 2007, 06:05 AM Post #14 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I would rather have been detained with handcuffs and brought in on charges than tasered. Also a more just thing to do if you ask me. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| pianojerome | Dec 23 2007, 08:43 AM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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What if the woman tried to run? (the article mentioned she kept backing away as the officer got closer.) How would the officer get the cuffs on her? |
| Sam | |
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| Pianolicious | Dec 23 2007, 09:25 AM Post #16 |
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Senior Carp
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I say use the Taser when they look at you funny and chase all you want no matter how many people in private vehicles get killed in the process. Only in California. |
| Sit tibi vita longa et omnia bona!!! -- Dr. Spock | |
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| sue | Dec 23 2007, 10:04 AM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yes. If I was screaming like a crazy person, waving a pistol around threatening to rid the world of all teenager retail store employees or something, I should think tasering me would be the right thing to do. But if I had no weapon, and could be just handcuffed and removed from the scene so I can calm down and explain myself, I shouldn't really have to be tasered, and possibly killed. |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 23 2007, 11:11 AM Post #18 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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If you run from police, that's an entirely different matter than screaming at them. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Dec 23 2007, 11:13 AM Post #19 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Running away from a police officer is less of a threat than screaming at them. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Frank_W | Dec 23 2007, 11:14 AM Post #20 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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I agree. Well said, Quirt. (Oh god... It looks like Quirt, Larry, and I are all in agreement. Surely, this is one of the signs of the Apocalypse!)
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 23 2007, 11:15 AM Post #21 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I used to have a job in a location where the cops were pretty busy. They'd have two squad cars parked at the busiest street in the area, waiting for the bars to let out. And, sure enough, every single night, they'd arrest somebody for assault, resisting arrest, etc. The people they arrested were doing a lot more than yelling and backing away somewhat, and I never saw those officers use a Taser. Never. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 23 2007, 11:17 AM Post #22 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Yeah, but it's definitely more illegal. Running away from the police is the last thing you want to do, no matter what's going on. I seriously doubt you'd walk away from that without being charged. I agree with your advice, by the way. If you scream at a police officer, you're asking for trouble. It's an outright stupid thing to do, but it doesn't grant the officer the right to taser you. That's just ridiculous. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Dec 23 2007, 11:20 AM Post #23 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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I'm just putting myself in the cop's shoes, Aqua. A cop might be in this sort of position dozens of times a year. Sooner or later, they're going to run into a violent character. If they don't shut it down before it gets to the violent stage, sooner or later they will get hurt. Respect the fact that they're putting themselves in danger every time they go into that sort of situation. Don't yell. If you do, as you say, you're asking for trouble, and you just might get it. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 23 2007, 11:35 AM Post #24 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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[sarcasm] Oh sure, absolutely. I'm sure that even now and then, they'll run into the quiet type with shifty eyes that just explodes with no warning. Cops should preface every conversation they have with 50k volts*, just to be sure. Because y'know, there's always that one time when something could have happened. [/sarcasm] *I hate when they talk about the voltage of a shock. That's never the issue. It's the current! Voltage is another word for "electric potential." 50k volts is nothing if there's no current attached to it. Current is what kills you, not voltage. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| ivorythumper | Dec 24 2007, 12:52 PM Post #25 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Running away from the police is more of a threat to the populace in general, which is the police's main job -- to protect the public, not themselves. Both actions are dumb. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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