|
Was the MAS more effective than welfare?
|
|
Topic Started: Dec 5 2007, 09:59 AM (1,100 Views)
|
|
Jolly
|
Dec 7 2007, 03:00 PM
Post #76
|
- Posts:
- 47,527
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #30
- Joined:
- April 19, 2005
|
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 04:38 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 02:27 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 03:13 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 08:51 AM
- QuirtEvans
- Dec 7 2007, 10:48 AM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 11:41 AM
- Steve Miller
- Dec 6 2007, 11:29 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 5 2007, 03:07 PM
There's an old saying down my way...No man with a cow is truly poor.
I'm afraid that cow won't be of much comfort when one of the kids gets sick.
I don't see why not. Unless we're talking about major medical expenses, and that has the ability to break even rich developers such as yourself....
Apparently, despite your abundant knowledge of cows, you don't understand the difference between contractors and developers.
I do, but I also know what will make Mr. Miller bite.
Troll.
You know, you are truly a piece of work. You don't know my background with Steve, what I know about him or what he knows about me. You interject yourself in conversation like some form of parasitic worm - dumb, happy living in feces and unable to reproduce except by asexual means. If you had a brain, you'd be dangerous. As it is, you are a pathetic excuse for scum, which is simply no more than dried sperm...something cast aside as a piece of flotsam from a momentary self-pleasure. Do us all a favor, stick your head in a bucket of water and take a deep breath. If there be trolls here, sirrah, you would most certainly be the member most likely to recognize one - go look in a mirror, if you have one you haven't broken, yet.
Well as I live an breathe, my favorite throw back and bigot. Lay off the personal attacks an ME ****head because I do know the history between you and me and I do know you have interjected yourself into threads involving me with gratuitous personal attacks over and over. Bigot.
You can't even understand the written word, can you?
Bless your heart, you can enter a conversation and drop the collective IQ twenty points.
|
|
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
|
| |
|
Daniel
|
Dec 7 2007, 03:12 PM
Post #77
|
- Posts:
- 11,568
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #462
- Joined:
- June 7, 2007
|
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 03:00 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 04:38 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 02:27 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 03:13 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 08:51 AM
- QuirtEvans
- Dec 7 2007, 10:48 AM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 11:41 AM
- Steve Miller
- Dec 6 2007, 11:29 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 5 2007, 03:07 PM
There's an old saying down my way...No man with a cow is truly poor.
I'm afraid that cow won't be of much comfort when one of the kids gets sick.
I don't see why not. Unless we're talking about major medical expenses, and that has the ability to break even rich developers such as yourself....
Apparently, despite your abundant knowledge of cows, you don't understand the difference between contractors and developers.
I do, but I also know what will make Mr. Miller bite.
Troll.
You know, you are truly a piece of work. You don't know my background with Steve, what I know about him or what he knows about me. You interject yourself in conversation like some form of parasitic worm - dumb, happy living in feces and unable to reproduce except by asexual means. If you had a brain, you'd be dangerous. As it is, you are a pathetic excuse for scum, which is simply no more than dried sperm...something cast aside as a piece of flotsam from a momentary self-pleasure. Do us all a favor, stick your head in a bucket of water and take a deep breath. If there be trolls here, sirrah, you would most certainly be the member most likely to recognize one - go look in a mirror, if you have one you haven't broken, yet.
Well as I live an breathe, my favorite throw back and bigot. Lay off the personal attacks an ME ****head because I do know the history between you and me and I do know you have interjected yourself into threads involving me with gratuitous personal attacks over and over. Bigot.
You can't even understand the written word, can you? Bless your heart, you can enter a conversation and drop the collective IQ twenty points.
Bigot.
|
|
|
| |
|
QuirtEvans
|
Dec 7 2007, 03:56 PM
Post #78
|
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
- Posts:
- 31,180
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #26
- Joined:
- April 19, 2005
|
- ivorythumper
- Dec 7 2007, 05:50 PM
- QuirtEvans
- Dec 7 2007, 10:25 AM
Kathy and I have been through this before. The estimates are that between 300 million and 500 million people would have died in the 20th century from smallpox without a smallpox vaccine.
That would be starting approximately 53 years after the date you just cited.
I think we're talking apples and oranges. Given the world population in 1900 was about 1.6B, a projected death rate of 30% seems rather high. The death rate of those infected with smallpox is only 30%, and obviously not every got it. Not everyone got smallpox, but everyone was born, so the death rate of almost 1:5 for infant mortality from puerperal fever etc being reduced to less than 1:40 with the simple practice of washing hands and sterilizing things seem much more significant. But beyond that, your original point was the curability has increased the cost of medicine. I don't disagree with that point, but I don't understand how the cost of developing the cure for smallpox (as effective as it has been) and disease eradication in general has any attributable (definable) impact on general heath costs. EDIT: And as I said before, it's all money well spent.
I never said definable. But the cost of developing medicines and vaccines is clearly substantial, because you have to include the cost of both the failures and the successes.
And yes, I acknowledge, you did say it was worth it.
|
|
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
|
| |
|
QuirtEvans
|
Dec 7 2007, 03:58 PM
Post #79
|
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
- Posts:
- 31,180
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #26
- Joined:
- April 19, 2005
|
By the way, why are you using the population in 1900? You might as well use the population in 1950 ... because, absent the vaccine, there was a decent chance that anyone born in 1950 (or even later) would have caught the disease.
Many who died died in the first ten years of life, as discussed earlier.
|
|
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
|
| |
|
kathyk
|
Dec 7 2007, 05:32 PM
Post #80
|
- Posts:
- 7,334
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #115
- Joined:
- April 22, 2005
|
Quirt, don't you fret, I will take this up with you tomorrow. My head is too foggy with TGIF very nice red wine to wine to respond properly.
|
|
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
|
| |
|
ivorythumper
|
Dec 7 2007, 06:13 PM
Post #81
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
- Posts:
- 50,664
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #164
- Joined:
- April 24, 2005
|
- QuirtEvans
- Dec 7 2007, 04:58 PM
By the way, why are you using the population in 1900? You might as well use the population in 1950 ... because, absent the vaccine, there was a decent chance that anyone born in 1950 (or even later) would have caught the disease.
Many who died died in the first ten years of life, as discussed earlier.
I used 1900 because you said it was about 53 years after the date I mentioned when germ theory became more of a science. Before that, cures were developed for various biological diseases but doctors were not sure why they worked.
However, I still don't see your point, given that Jenner's smallpox vaccine was in the late 18th century (1796), and in the 19th and 20th centuries smallpox was largely a third world issue as in Europe and America it was mostly eradicated through vaccination with a death rate close to zero.
So I don't think it is accurate to say that nearly anyone born up to 1950 (say, our parents' generation) was susceptible to smallpox, and I don't think it is supportive of your general argument about increased costs of medicine (even if your point is accurate).
|
|
The dogma lives loudly within me.
|
| |
|
Jolly
|
Dec 7 2007, 08:14 PM
Post #82
|
- Posts:
- 47,527
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #30
- Joined:
- April 19, 2005
|
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 05:12 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 03:00 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 04:38 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 02:27 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 03:13 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 08:51 AM
- QuirtEvans
- Dec 7 2007, 10:48 AM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 11:41 AM
- Steve Miller
- Dec 6 2007, 11:29 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 5 2007, 03:07 PM
There's an old saying down my way...No man with a cow is truly poor.
I'm afraid that cow won't be of much comfort when one of the kids gets sick.
I don't see why not. Unless we're talking about major medical expenses, and that has the ability to break even rich developers such as yourself....
Apparently, despite your abundant knowledge of cows, you don't understand the difference between contractors and developers.
I do, but I also know what will make Mr. Miller bite.
Troll.
You know, you are truly a piece of work. You don't know my background with Steve, what I know about him or what he knows about me. You interject yourself in conversation like some form of parasitic worm - dumb, happy living in feces and unable to reproduce except by asexual means. If you had a brain, you'd be dangerous. As it is, you are a pathetic excuse for scum, which is simply no more than dried sperm...something cast aside as a piece of flotsam from a momentary self-pleasure. Do us all a favor, stick your head in a bucket of water and take a deep breath. If there be trolls here, sirrah, you would most certainly be the member most likely to recognize one - go look in a mirror, if you have one you haven't broken, yet.
Well as I live an breathe, my favorite throw back and bigot. Lay off the personal attacks an ME ****head because I do know the history between you and me and I do know you have interjected yourself into threads involving me with gratuitous personal attacks over and over. Bigot.
You can't even understand the written word, can you? Bless your heart, you can enter a conversation and drop the collective IQ twenty points.
Bigot.
Be careful, your Ivy league education is showing.
|
|
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
|
| |
|
Daniel
|
Dec 7 2007, 08:19 PM
Post #83
|
- Posts:
- 11,568
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #462
- Joined:
- June 7, 2007
|
Like you would know...
|
|
|
| |
|
Jolly
|
Dec 7 2007, 09:10 PM
Post #84
|
- Posts:
- 47,527
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #30
- Joined:
- April 19, 2005
|
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 10:19 PM
Like you would know...
You hang on every word, don't you?
Pathetic little life you have there...
|
|
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
|
| |
|
Daniel
|
Dec 7 2007, 09:25 PM
Post #85
|
- Posts:
- 11,568
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #462
- Joined:
- June 7, 2007
|
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 09:10 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 10:19 PM
Like you would know...
You hang on every word, don't you? Pathetic little life you have there...
:rolleyes:
|
|
|
| |
|
ivorythumper
|
Dec 7 2007, 10:09 PM
Post #86
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
- Posts:
- 50,664
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #164
- Joined:
- April 24, 2005
|
This is a very pretty graphic:
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 09:14 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 05:12 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 03:00 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 04:38 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 02:27 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 03:13 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 08:51 AM
- QuirtEvans
- Dec 7 2007, 10:48 AM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 11:41 AM
- Steve Miller
- Dec 6 2007, 11:29 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 5 2007, 03:07 PM
There's an old saying down my way...No man with a cow is truly poor.
I'm afraid that cow won't be of much comfort when one of the kids gets sick.
I don't see why not. Unless we're talking about major medical expenses, and that has the ability to break even rich developers such as yourself....
Apparently, despite your abundant knowledge of cows, you don't understand the difference between contractors and developers.
I do, but I also know what will make Mr. Miller bite.
Troll.
You know, you are truly a piece of work. You don't know my background with Steve, what I know about him or what he knows about me. You interject yourself in conversation like some form of parasitic worm - dumb, happy living in feces and unable to reproduce except by asexual means. If you had a brain, you'd be dangerous. As it is, you are a pathetic excuse for scum, which is simply no more than dried sperm...something cast aside as a piece of flotsam from a momentary self-pleasure. Do us all a favor, stick your head in a bucket of water and take a deep breath. If there be trolls here, sirrah, you would most certainly be the member most likely to recognize one - go look in a mirror, if you have one you haven't broken, yet.
Well as I live an breathe, my favorite throw back and bigot. Lay off the personal attacks an ME ****head because I do know the history between you and me and I do know you have interjected yourself into threads involving me with gratuitous personal attacks over and over. Bigot.
You can't even understand the written word, can you? Bless your heart, you can enter a conversation and drop the collective IQ twenty points.
Bigot.
Be careful, your Ivy league education is showing.
|
|
The dogma lives loudly within me.
|
| |
|
Rick
|
Dec 7 2007, 10:25 PM
Post #87
|
- Posts:
- 1,021
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #508
- Joined:
- September 8, 2007
|
- ivorythumper
- Dec 7 2007, 10:09 PM
This is a very pretty graphic: - Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 09:14 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 05:12 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 03:00 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 04:38 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 02:27 PM
- Daniel
- Dec 7 2007, 03:13 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 08:51 AM
- QuirtEvans
- Dec 7 2007, 10:48 AM
- Jolly
- Dec 7 2007, 11:41 AM
- Steve Miller
- Dec 6 2007, 11:29 PM
- Jolly
- Dec 5 2007, 03:07 PM
There's an old saying down my way...No man with a cow is truly poor.
I'm afraid that cow won't be of much comfort when one of the kids gets sick.
I don't see why not. Unless we're talking about major medical expenses, and that has the ability to break even rich developers such as yourself....
Apparently, despite your abundant knowledge of cows, you don't understand the difference between contractors and developers.
I do, but I also know what will make Mr. Miller bite.
Troll.
You know, you are truly a piece of work. You don't know my background with Steve, what I know about him or what he knows about me. You interject yourself in conversation like some form of parasitic worm - dumb, happy living in feces and unable to reproduce except by asexual means. If you had a brain, you'd be dangerous. As it is, you are a pathetic excuse for scum, which is simply no more than dried sperm...something cast aside as a piece of flotsam from a momentary self-pleasure. Do us all a favor, stick your head in a bucket of water and take a deep breath. If there be trolls here, sirrah, you would most certainly be the member most likely to recognize one - go look in a mirror, if you have one you haven't broken, yet.
Well as I live an breathe, my favorite throw back and bigot. Lay off the personal attacks an ME ****head because I do know the history between you and me and I do know you have interjected yourself into threads involving me with gratuitous personal attacks over and over. Bigot.
You can't even understand the written word, can you? Bless your heart, you can enter a conversation and drop the collective IQ twenty points.
Bigot.
Be careful, your Ivy league education is showing.
you are the creative one IT! Nice.
|
|
|
| |