| Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Was the MAS more effective than welfare? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 5 2007, 09:59 AM (1,103 Views) | |
| Rick | Dec 5 2007, 03:10 PM Post #26 |
![]()
Senior Carp
|
Edited for family values. :rolleyes: |
![]() |
|
| Daniel | Dec 5 2007, 03:14 PM Post #27 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
The government's fault? All this time I thought the Great Depression was do due to a collapse of the economy. Wait, the government was behind that, not the unregulated market, through the creation of the Federal Reserve. Also, the number of people in poverty and its severity were less than today. Today poverty is worse than in the Great Depression. Alrighty then. |
![]() |
|
| Mark | Dec 5 2007, 03:24 PM Post #28 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
The market was far from unregulated. In fact it was regulated and regulated by the government to favor a few very wealthy people at the expense of competitors. |
|
___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
![]() |
|
| ivorythumper | Dec 5 2007, 03:26 PM Post #29 |
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
|
Perhaps we should keep this family friendly, Rick.... |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
![]() |
|
| Daniel | Dec 5 2007, 03:28 PM Post #30 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
I move to have a two day discussion of the moderation of this board NOT. |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Dec 5 2007, 03:28 PM Post #31 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
Here all this time we thought they were saying 'moo', when it was 'Nuuu...Nuuuuu....'. I guess dog is no longer man's best friend. Shoes, meat, butter, car seats and sex. Pretty good for an ugly ass creature like a cow. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| QuirtEvans | Dec 5 2007, 03:58 PM Post #32 |
|
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
|
I'm sure those other factors have an effect too, but I'm betting that modern hospitals, MRI machines, all the new drugs developed in the last century, intensive care wards, arthroscopic surgery, modern operating theatres, modern anaesthesia, the overwhelming number of medical specialties, etc., have a huge impact on the overall cost of medicine. I'm going to guess that, 150 years ago, the average person never saw the inside of a hospital in their lifetime. Most people were probably treated for almost everything by their family practitioner, and never saw a medical specialist of any sort ... except maybe a dentist. (That's just a guess, though, I'm not a student of the history of medical practice.) As the chart below shows, the average lifespan today is almost 30 years longer than it was a century ago. ![]() Now, Jolly is undoubtedly right ... there's a quality of life issue that we are bumping into. However, when the ancient Greeks died (on average) at age 18 ... or even when the average American died around age 47 a century ago ... we weren't quite at that quality of life issue yet. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
![]() |
|
| ivorythumper | Dec 5 2007, 04:07 PM Post #33 |
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
|
I do agree with you about life span -- money well spent! |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
![]() |
|
| jon-nyc | Dec 5 2007, 05:19 PM Post #34 |
|
Cheers
|
Kath - great photos, are those Walker Evans? |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
![]() |
|
| kathyk | Dec 5 2007, 06:13 PM Post #35 |
|
Pisa-Carp
|
Here you go again with your false assumptions. My junior high and on years were spent living on a rural route and with cows. RR#1, Chase, Michigan, to be precise. And before that, my father was a milk man - so you could say I've been around the cow business all of my formative life. Jon, about the photos, I don't know, but they have that look don't they. They were from here and most seemed to not be attributed to anyone, but just identified as being from the National Archive. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Dec 5 2007, 06:23 PM Post #36 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
Ok...what happens to a cow when she eats bitterweed? How do you cure a calf with scours? What are chains usually used for when talking about cows? How do you load a cow that sulls? What's a bell cow? Why will cows improve a pasture, but horses won't? What's the difference between a muley cow and one that's polled? How do you milk a cow with hairy teats? What does it mean when a cow bangs out? Who has more butterfat in their milk, Holstein or Jersey? What do you do for a cow with severe bloat? Those are simple questions...go ahead and amaze me... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
| kathyk | Dec 5 2007, 06:57 PM Post #37 |
|
Pisa-Carp
|
I didn't say I raised them. But, if you need the answers, I can run them by my Dad. He actually raised beef cattle - not dairy. But he was raised on an all purpose farm (pigs, cows, poultry and the field crops to feed them) and went on to study agriculture at MSU - first of his family to go to college. After teaching ag a few years in a high school, he bought a small dairy that collected and bottled milk from all the local farmers. As things modernized, it eventually became a Twin Pines franchise and he was the town's milk man. I know he had a particular fondness for Jersey cows, so I'm pretty sure their butter fat content is higher than Holsteins, the more standard dairy cow. They also have very fetching eyelashes. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Dec 5 2007, 08:43 PM Post #38 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
So. despite your being right on butterfat content, I am correct in my assumptions and your knowledge of cows is fairly limited. Here's a few answers, although I doubt this stuff comes up at cocktail parties you might attend this holiday season... 1. Bitterweed? You can't drink the milk, so you try to eradicate them from the pasture. 2. Combiatic, a bit of feed and some prayers. 3. Chains are used to pull breached calves. 4. If one sulls in the chute, hit 'em with a hotshot. If you don't have a hotshot, tail 'em up. 5. Contrary to popular belief, cows run the herd, not bulls. A bell cow is usually the lead cow, and that's why we used to bell her. Find the bell cow, find the herd. 6. A horse will tear grass out by the roots, not to mention a cow will grow fat on bahaia, which grows well on poor land... a horse won't hardly eat it. 7. Muley and polled cows have no horns. 8. You have to be careful with hairy teats...you grab the hair and bossy tends to get fractious. 9. When a cow bangs out, it means she has brucellosis. 10. Jersey. But Holsteins give a lot more milk, hence they tend to be seen more in dairies. 11. I've seen old cowmen literally stick a knife in their sides to let the gas out. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
| Axtremus | Dec 5 2007, 09:59 PM Post #39 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
So, Jolly, do you belong to an MAS? Do you plan to start one?
|
![]() |
|
| Mark | Dec 5 2007, 10:10 PM Post #40 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Yes but it sure as hell was not the government that made this happen. I submit that if government had stayed the hell out of health care it would be an order of magnitude less expensive and more affordable for everyone not just the poor. |
|
___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
![]() |
|
| Jack Frost | Dec 6 2007, 02:54 AM Post #41 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
I don't recognize any as Walker Evans. The close shot of mother and children is by Dorthea Lange, and others may be as well. There was quite a stable of photographers working for the Farm Security Administration during the depression and they are probably all from that project. Walker Evans was the most prominent of that group, certainly. jf |
| |
![]() |
|
| big al | Dec 6 2007, 05:57 AM Post #42 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
I thought I'd float this post to the top again because the website has over one hundred thousand photos from the 1930s-40s including ones by Walker Evans, Dorthea Lange, Jack Delano, and many others. Big Al |
|
Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Dec 6 2007, 09:30 AM Post #43 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
I'm a big fan of, and I support monetarily The Salvation Army. Through my offerings in my church, I also help support the Southern Baptist Cooperative. If you survived Katrina, be it in New Orleans or in Mississippi, you were left scratching your hungry butt, standing on your empty lot. The people that were most effective in clothing you and feeding you came from organizations similar to those I mentioned above. There weren't guys from the Feds able to feed the people, and I didn't see any buddhists passing out sandwiches on the corner, or atheists setting up coffee wagons, but the different Christian groups, be they Baptists, Catholics, whatever...those were the guys stirring the pots and dishing out small bowls of hope. And let me shock you just a bit...some of the durable medical equipment that was lost was replaced by some people that you would have never thought about...CT scanners and MRI machines paid for by people and countries in the Middle East. Long tem...yes, a disaster of this magnitude has required Federal help. But the best immediate help came from the private sector, primarily those organizations and people of faith. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
| Daniel | Dec 6 2007, 09:49 AM Post #44 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
I have a television, a garbage bag full of clothes, an ironing board, a chess set, and a video game controller in the trunk of my car that needs to be dropped off at the Salvation Army. |
![]() |
|
| big al | Dec 6 2007, 10:38 AM Post #45 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
Now there's a truth you and I can agree on. Rebuilding levees, bridges, and roads takes the size and organization of the government and construction companies. Rebuilding lives takes place one at a time and no government or large organization can substitute for one person helping another. Local relief organizations are the next step up and are closer to the actual problems and more flexible in the help they can provide. We need all of them in their proper place. Big Al |
|
Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
![]() |
|
| kathyk | Dec 6 2007, 10:47 AM Post #46 |
|
Pisa-Carp
|
I agree. Again, the article blames government programs for the demise of fraternal societies, as if to somehow suggest we would be better off without the government programs (presumably Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, et al). I certainly don't disagree that many aspects of welfare could use reform; for one welcomed those initiated by Clinton. But let's not forget how these programs were conceived. If the MAS's had been sufficient in and of themselves, these reforms would not have been needed. A good little blurb from Wiki. ------- The New Deal had three components: direct relief, economic recovery, and financial reform. These goals were also called the "Three Rs." Relief was the immediate effort to help the one-third of the population most affected by the depression. Roosevelt expanded Hoover's Federal Emergency Relief Administration work relief program and added the Civilian Conservation Corps, Public Works Administration, and (starting in 1935) the Works Progress Administration. In 1935, the social security and unemployment insurance programs were also added. Separate programs were set up for relief in rural America, such as the Resettlement Administration and Farm Security Administration. These work relief programs have been praised by most economists in retrospect.[4]Milton Friedman, who after taking a graduate degree in economics was employed by the WPA to analyze family budgets and the hardships they faced, was an ardent New Dealer as late as 1943, and always regarded the relief programs as "appropriate responses to the critical situation." [5] Recovery was the effort in many programs to restore normal economic health. By most economic indicators this was achieved by 1937 except for unemployment, which remained high until the beginning of World War II. At that point, U.S. involvement in the war provided a substantial economic boost to the United States. Reform was based on the idea that the Great Depression was caused by market instability and that government intervention was necessary to balance the interests of farmers, business and labor. It included the National Recovery Administration, which in 1935 ended regulation of Wall Street, the Agricultural Adjustment Act farm programs (1933 and 1938), insurance of bank deposits, and the Wagner Act encouraging labor unions (1935) by mandating by law that all employees in a business join a union and/or pay dues if the majority of workers agreed to form one. Despite urgings by some New Dealers, there was no major anti-trust program. President Roosevelt rejected the opportunity to take over banks and railroads, while only one major program, the Tennessee Valley Authority (1933), involved government ownership of the means of production. However, there was extensive regulation of the means of production, much of which was later struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
![]() |
|
| taiwan_girl | Dec 6 2007, 11:34 AM Post #47 |
|
Fulla-Carp
|
I heard somewhere that back in 1880, if you lived to be 10 or 15 years old, your life expectancy was 65-70 years old. Today, if you live to be 10 or 15 years old, your life expectancy is 75-80 years old. I am going to look for the information but I cannot find it right now. |
![]() |
|
| Moonbat | Dec 6 2007, 11:40 AM Post #48 |
![]()
Pisa-Carp
|
Interesting that the life expectancy for 85 year olds hasn't changed guess that's genetic determinism kicking in. |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
![]() |
|
| ivorythumper | Dec 6 2007, 01:05 PM Post #49 |
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
|
That is a very good point about changes in average life expectancy. I looked at the family tree, and before about 1880 (the advent of germ theory) many of my forebears had 8 to 12 kids with only 2 or 3 surviving infancy. *If* that is part of the equation regarding rises in average life expectancy, then the economic impact of medical costs driven by curability might be less than presumed. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
![]() |
|
| Steve Miller | Dec 6 2007, 09:29 PM Post #50 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
I'm afraid that cow won't be of much comfort when one of the kids gets sick. |
|
Wag more Bark less | |
![]() |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic » |












6:06 AM Jul 11