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Legal/DMV question; ...front tag
Topic Started: Jul 19 2007, 06:43 PM (2,737 Views)
The 89th Key
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So I went to see a movie tonight in DC. I parked on a side street, and when I came back I had a ticket that said "Violation: P168 - NO TAG FRONT DISPLAY".

First of all, they are referring to my license plate, correct? I ask because at first I thought I was missing a permit, but I think the "tag" is referring to my license plate.

Secondly, my car's front bumper has a custom license plate holder that fell off 3 years ago, and I wasn't able to find a replacement, so I haven't had a front license plate this whole time. While I believe the state of Maryland requires it, I wasn't worried about it and figured I'd rather take the risk and explain it to the officer if I ever got pulled over for it.

However, my question is this: Can DC, a different jurisdiction (basically a different state) give me a ticket for something that is illegal in Maryland, despite DC's laws?
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musicasacra
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HOLY CARP!!!
that's the poopers -- how much is the ticket?

what movie did you see?
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The 89th Key
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50 bucks - second ticket of my life! :weeping: My first ticket was about a year ago, a redlight camera caught me just barely squeezing through a stoplight after it turned red...I was on the white line, it was 10pm, it was raining, the speed limit was 45, wasn't the easiest to stop, so I dont feel guilty for that one.

I saw "Charlie Bartlett". It comes out Aug 3rd - pretty weak film, I'll post a review later.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Some states require front license plates, others do not. Oklahoma does not. Were you ticketed in DC? Does DC require a front license plate? Where is your car registered?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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The 89th Key
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Car registered in MD, ticketed in DC...I'm pretty sure DC requires it as well. Just didn't know if they could speak for MD, ya know?

I'm challenging the ticket in hopes of getting a reduced fine - more spite than anything. So we'll see...
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
The 89th Key
Jul 19 2007, 07:15 PM
Car registered in MD, ticketed in DC...I'm pretty sure DC requires it as well. Just didn't know if they could speak for MD, ya know?

I'm challenging the ticket in hopes of getting a reduced fine - more spite than anything. So we'll see...

My experience with challenging traffic violations is this:

If you show up to court, even if you are proven dog guilty, you are automatically given a reduced fine, just for showing up in court. I've seen it both with my own cases and with the cases of others. For me, it seems it always pays to show up in court, guilty or no. So I'd definitely contest it, just for that reason alone.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Qaanaaq-Liaaq
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Senior Carp
Yes, I’d say the word “tag” refers to the state motor vehicle license plate but it could also refer to a municipal motor vehicle sticker. Some municipalities require you to buy one if you’re a resident. To be sure, check with a D.C. traffic court on the exact meaning of citation code P168.

Does Maryland and D.C. have a reciprocal agreement to enforce each other’s motor vehicle laws? That would explain why a D.C. cop can cite you for not having a MD front plate. And vice versa, a MD cop can cite a DC motorist for not having a DC plate. In fact, since Virginia, Maryland, and D.C. are neighbors, all three probably have a mutual agreement with each other.

I’ll qualify this by saying that I’m not an attorney and I don’t know the motor vehicle laws over there.



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RosemaryTwo
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HOLY CARP!!!
Hmmm, tricky, there.

To whom are you supposed to write your check? Who gets the money? It doesn't seem fair that DC would get $$ for a MD violation.
"Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua
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Frank_W
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Tennessee doesn't require one. In fact, mine's a dive flag.

Sucks, 89th... Sorry, man...
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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novaau
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I joined this forum to learn what ever happened of this encounter, because it is such an interesting question. I, too, am in the same predicament, only difference is I live in Virginia (Fairfax). I want to challenge it in person, though in 2 days the fine doubles if I don't pay it. Additionally, I only get paid for hours I am actually working, and could forgo an amount of money potentially more than the fine itself by challenging (I guess it see it as a pride issue), as the hours I spend challenging I would normally be at work.

But the legal aspect is pretty straightforward- does DC have the ability to fine persons who are not in adherence to their respective states' license plate laws? I do spend a fraction of my time driving in DC, so it would seem somewhat reasonable for them to fine for not making my identity known to the standard in my own state, since they can also identify me better that way.

Personally though, I see it a different way. I feel that since not all states require front and back plates, that DC should not be allowed to fine vehicles from other states that don't have BOTH of them displayed- only the states one in which the vehicle is registered, just as other states should not be allowed such authority over DC. However, since all states require a rear one, states (and DC) are free to fine each other if the rear one is not displayed.

By the way, the reason I don't have my front one displayed is that Saab forgot to put Americanized front bumpers on their 2004 9-3's, so the mounting of a front plate would require drilling directly in my front bumper, a task for which I have not the tools to do effectively.
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
novaau
Jan 18 2011, 07:00 PM
I joined this forum to learn what ever happened of this encounter, because it is such an interesting question. I, too, am in the same predicament, only difference is I live in Virginia (Fairfax). I want to challenge it in person, though in 2 days the fine doubles if I don't pay it. Additionally, I only get paid for hours I am actually working, and could forgo an amount of money potentially more than the fine itself by challenging (I guess it see it as a pride issue), as the hours I spend challenging I would normally be at work.

But the legal aspect is pretty straightforward- does DC have the ability to fine persons who are not in adherence to their respective states' license plate laws? I do spend a fraction of my time driving in DC, so it would seem somewhat reasonable for them to fine for not making my identity known to the standard in my own state, since they can also identify me better that way.
Welcome....

I'll answer your question with a question. Do you really think that DC cops are going to ticket you only to have the judge throw it out because they don't have the authority to do it? I would think a DC cop would have better things to do if that were the case. Like chill at the Dunkin' Donuts. :D

So which is going to cost you less? Paying the ticket and moving on. Or going to court and per Aqua, hope the judge reduces the fine and losing a day's pay?

You're not the first to find yourself in this situation and you won't be the last.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
novaau
Jan 18 2011, 07:00 PM
Personally though, I see it a different way. I feel that since not all states require front and back plates, that DC should not be allowed to fine vehicles from other states that don't have BOTH of them displayed- only the states one in which the vehicle is registered, just as other states should not be allowed such authority over DC.
I'm sure the DC judge will find that a compelling argument. He's probably never heard that one before. :D
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
The 89th Key
Jul 19 2007, 06:43 PM
However, my question is this: Can DC, a different jurisdiction (basically a different state) give me a ticket for something that is illegal in Maryland, despite DC's laws?
Simple answer - yes, they just did.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Yeah, if you got the ticket, it's real, and "legal" until proven otherwise.

It may be worth fighting - that I don't know - but "worth" may have more to do with your potential net-loss due to loss of income - I'd at least weight that into the equation.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
The 89th Key
Jul 19 2007, 07:15 PM
Car registered in MD, ticketed in DC...I'm pretty sure DC requires it as well. Just didn't know if they could speak for MD, ya know?

I'm challenging the ticket in hopes of getting a reduced fine - more spite than anything. So we'll see...
So, what was the outcome? Can you even remember that far back?
Edited by Kincaid, Jan 18 2011, 10:38 PM.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Aqua Letifer
Jul 19 2007, 07:38 PM
The 89th Key,Jul 19 2007
07:15 PM
Car registered in MD, ticketed in DC...I'm pretty sure DC requires it as well. Just didn't know if they could speak for MD, ya know?

I'm challenging the ticket in hopes of getting a reduced fine - more spite than anything. So we'll see...

My experience with challenging traffic violations is this:

If you show up to court, even if you are proven dog guilty, you are automatically given a reduced fine, just for showing up in court. I've seen it both with my own cases and with the cases of others. For me, it seems it always pays to show up in court, guilty or no. So I'd definitely contest it, just for that reason alone.
By the way, this is total bull****.

I've since learned that it all depends on the judge, whether or not this works. Some asshole judges will consider it a mark against you if you have had a moving violation within the past 13 years, and in addition to the fine you could be looking at court fees. If you have other points on your license, you're rolling the dice if you go into court.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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novaau
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Improviso
Jan 18 2011, 07:30 PM

Quote:
 
I'll answer your question with a question. Do you really think that DC cops are going to ticket you only to have the judge throw it out because they don't have the authority to do it? I would think a DC cop would have better things to do if that were the case. Like chill at the Dunkin' Donuts. :D


I'd imagine that, in the years of DC's parking ticket authority, some sort of agreement had been made between the two authoritative groups. DC has $300M in outstanding fines from parking alone. They have somewhat of a "shoot first, ask questions later," mentality, and I think a bunch of people say f- it, and don't pay. I can't get a library card there until my status changes, but that's about the only think I lose (until I get pulled over). I don't wish to get a driver's license from there, I have one from VA that lasts eight years, to say nothing of the rep of the DC DMV. There could be credit score* implications, too, if they report to collection agencies.
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novaau
Newbie
big al
Jan 18 2011, 07:40 PM
The 89th Key
Jul 19 2007, 06:43 PM
However, my question is this: Can DC, a different jurisdiction (basically a different state) give me a ticket for something that is illegal in Maryland, despite DC's laws?
Simple answer - yes, they just did.

Big Al
yes, they did
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Calif law is you must have a front plate.
I'd guess a third don't, maybe half.
Weird.


I never wore a front plate till finally got a ticket a couple years ago.

Posted Image It uses more gas.
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brenda
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..............
89th, it's front and rear here*, dear.


* = in Minnesnowta
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Qaanaaq-Liaaq
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Senior Carp
You’ll continue to get cited if you don’t do something about the front license plate.

If Saab neglected to provide a front license plate holder for the car when it was new, then it should have been made available by now. Check with a Saab dealer.
Edited by Qaanaaq-Liaaq, Jan 19 2011, 07:21 AM.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Kenny
 
I'd guess a third don't, maybe half.

That's ok - those drivers don't have licenses or insurance either... :)

In CO you don't need a front plate. I still have my plates from when i lived in Germany, and nearly put the front plate on my VW that I had until last year, but never did. It's common with "tuned" cars around here to show allegiance to their German heritage with a front plate from DE.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Qaanaaq-Liaaq
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Say novaau, you joined this forum for nothing.

Instead of reviving a four year old topic, you could have found the answer yourself. By using as a search argument: “Virginia reciprocity laws for motor vehicle license plates”, I found this web site.

http://law.justia.com/virginia/codes/2006/toc4602000/46.2-703.html

Look at paragraph 46.2-703 paragraph D-1. It says “Any person who operates or causes to be operated on any highway in the Commonwealth any motor vehicle that does not carry the proper registration, identification marker, or other evidence of registration as required by reciprocal standards or agreements entered into by the Department pursuant to this section...”.

I think this answers your question. Virginia cops can enforce DC vehicle license plate laws and vice versa: DC cops can enforce VA laws.

It’s a slow day at work for me today so I had the time to check.

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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
amazing that someone joins the forum to discuss license plates

in my day....i seem to recal something about pianos?
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
bachophile
Jan 19 2011, 09:56 AM
amazing that someone joins the forum to discuss license plates

in my day....i seem to recal something about pianos?
Fogey. :lol:
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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