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| Posturing at the Pump; George Will | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 17 2007, 08:51 AM (792 Views) | |
| Red Rice | May 19 2007, 06:43 AM Post #51 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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It ain't the high cost of regulatory compliance. That's the Kool Aid talking. |
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Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool. I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss! - Cecil Lewis | |
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| JBryan | May 19 2007, 06:44 AM Post #52 |
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I am the grey one
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Much of the regulation was necessary as refineries did need to be cleaned up and we should expect there to be a cost associated with it but have we gone too far? Could we meet acceptable levels at a lower cost? |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| JBryan | May 19 2007, 06:45 AM Post #53 |
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I am the grey one
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Brilliant, well reasoned argument.
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Red Rice | May 19 2007, 07:00 AM Post #54 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You don't think the oil companies have been trying to eliminate competition? You aren't familiar with Mobil's efforts close down the independent Powerine Oil Company refinery? To quote your previous brilliant, well reasoned argument: "You really need to learn a bit more about the oil industry before you swallow these things whole." The oil companies must love people like you. You'll take it any way they'll give it to you with a smile on your face. |
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Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool. I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss! - Cecil Lewis | |
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| Red Rice | May 19 2007, 07:01 AM Post #55 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Your most sensible post yet. |
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Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool. I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss! - Cecil Lewis | |
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| Larry | May 19 2007, 07:09 AM Post #56 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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This thread is a hoot, thanks to Rontuner. So clueless, so convinced he's not... Not long ago I read about just how many different formulations of gas refineries have to make, I'm going by memory here but it seems like it was a couple of hundred. Winter forumulas, summer formulas, forumlas for this state, formulas for that state, again depending on the season, etc. - all due to EPA regulations, and not one having squat to do with anything. Each time a refinery has to switch from one formula to the other, it requires shutting things down and setting things up to produce the required formula. That's one. Another: Oil companies aren't in business to be charities any more than a grocery store is in business to fight hunger, or any more, Ron, than you are in the business of tuning pianos to bring music to the world. You tune pianos to earn a living. Grocers are in business to earn a living. And, oil companies are in business to earn a living, defined as a profit. They are just as entitled to make a profit as you are to make more money than it costs you to tune a piano. Suppose, Ron, that in order for you to tune pianos you had to invest a thousand dollars annually in equipment and overhead expenses. From there, you expect to earn that thousand back, plus a little on top of that for your work, otherwise there's no point in bothering. Now suppose you gross 1500 bucks a year. You made 500 dollars profit. Now suppose that in order for you to tune a piano you had to invest a million dollars in equipment and overhead. Are you willing to invest that much money and still only make 500 bucks a year from it? Of course not. But that's what you're asking the oil companies to do. If you make 500 bucks on a 1,000 investment, by your logic you have made obscene profits. You've made a 50% return. You've made 50 cents on every dollar you spent. Do you know how much an oil company makes on every dollar they spend, Ron? About three cents. Do you know how much that means per gallon, Ron? A fraction of a penny. Do you know how much the government makes on that same gallon of gas, Ron? A gallon of gas they didn't spend a cent producing? I don't know the exact amount, but I believe I recall the amount stated on the pumps to be something like 70 or 80 something cents a gallon. That in addition to their being the cause of the cost of bringing that gallon of gas to you to be inflated due to meeting regulation requirements, stifling new refineries, stopping drilling for more oil, etc. You're a moonbat, Ron. Want to lower the cost of gas? Get the rest of the moonbats to shut up and sit down, and get out of the way so new refineries can be built, so the ones that are already there don't have to switch formulas every few months, and so the oil companies can drill the oil we have in the ground. The problem isn't the oil companies gouging profits, the problem is *you*, and the rest of the fools who think like you do. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| JBryan | May 19 2007, 07:19 AM Post #57 |
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I am the grey one
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Why would I not think oil companies don't want to eliminate competition? The question is how do they do that without the help of environmental regulations that, basically, eliminate the independents. The majors can weather that storm. They had many refineries. They simply shut down the older less profitable units and put the money into upgrading the rest. Works out well for them in many ways. Independents do not have that option. That is what has happened to any industry that becomes more regulated. It becomes less competetive with only a few big players. It is the trade off we have to live with if we are to have regulation but it should be seen as a trade off and not taken too far. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| George K | May 19 2007, 07:24 AM Post #58 |
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Finally
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Actually, Larry, (I'll find it if you want) the profit per gallon is about 13 cents. That profit is pretty much fixed, regardless of what happens to the price per gallon. On the other hand, the outfit that profits the most per gallon is (gasp) the US Government and the State Governments, for the taxes are a PERCENTAGE of the price. Gas goes up a buck a gallon, tax revenues just went up 50% on that gallon. Saweeet! That's the point of Will's article.
Edited to fix numbers |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Larry | May 19 2007, 07:50 AM Post #59 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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It might be that you're talking about gross profit, and I'm talking about net profit. But I could be wrong. I'm still buzzing from last night.........
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Mikhailoh | May 19 2007, 11:26 AM Post #60 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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But in any event, people need to take a look at what a profitable company in America consists of. By and large it is a very small margin compared to the investment required to create and maintain an operating organization. It is not obscene profits. It is salaries (that translates to jobs for the lefties out there..), and it is dividends for investors and it is civic donations and it is taxes and it is capital expenditures that keep othe rindustries going. That is where the VAST majority of corporate dollars go - not in the owners' pockets. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| taiwan_girl | May 19 2007, 07:47 PM Post #61 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I thought that margins per barrel of oil moved around quite a bit with gasolline being a big part of the final barrel of oil. |
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