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| Rev. Jerry Falwell dies; ...found unconscious | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 15 2007, 09:44 AM (2,009 Views) | |
| Dewey | May 17 2007, 12:09 PM Post #101 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Of course we're living in the end times. They started about two thousand years ago. Now, how long they'll continue until the end of the game is anyone's guess. As to AIDS being a means of divine punishment, I'm sorry, I don't buy it - at least not the way it's usually put forth. I believe that all disease, illness, pain, and suffering, has come into play in our existence as a result of a fallen creation - so in that sense, we are all paying a price for the fall of creation from its original ideal. God may allow us to suffer from the realities of a fallen creation, for which we all share some blame for. But it's a terrible mischaracterization of God to think that God directly causes pain or suffering as punishment to anyone, through the use of disease or any other direct means. And I certainly don't believe that God punishes specific individuals with custom-tailored "boutique" diseases as punishment for specific sins, which are supposedly more qrotesque than other sins that must be "bad, but not worthy of their own punitive boutique disease/punishment." I think that's just junk theology. If AIDS is a specialty disease designed to punish a special class of sinners, then God is a pretty piss-poor creator, considering how many non-gay men, women, and children have died as a result of it. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| John D'Oh | May 17 2007, 12:16 PM Post #102 |
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MAMIL
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Televangelism is the only divine punishment I'm convinced of. It demonstrates a truly sophisticated sense of irony on the part of the Creator. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| AlbertaCrude | May 17 2007, 12:29 PM Post #103 |
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Bull-Carp
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That is nonsensical rubbish Dewey. End times started a nano-second after the Big Bang and probably will continue until either we annihilate ourselves through our own stupidity and superstition or our sun's nuclear furnace can no longer sustain life on this planet. |
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| Dewey | May 17 2007, 12:38 PM Post #104 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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On a secular level, your view of end times isn't inconsistent with my comment. But my definition of end times is eschatological and specifically religious, in which case I stand by my beginning point. As far as how it will all end, I disagree on both the suggested means and the lead actor in the play. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| AlbertaCrude | May 17 2007, 12:53 PM Post #105 |
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Bull-Carp
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That's exactly what I wrote using an adjective and noun in my first sentence. |
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| Dewey | May 17 2007, 01:03 PM Post #106 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well, we're all entitled to believe our own rubbish, AC. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| AlbertaCrude | May 17 2007, 01:22 PM Post #107 |
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Bull-Carp
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Not according to the deceased. |
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| Dewey | May 17 2007, 03:05 PM Post #108 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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No, Falwell never forced anyone to convert or be killed. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Jolly | May 17 2007, 03:07 PM Post #109 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Whoa, Nellie!
I know it rains on the just and the unjust, but are you saying that God does not punish bad behavior, either by direct (sending plagues, etc), or indirect (allowing bad things to happen, such as the conquering of a nation)? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| John D'Oh | May 17 2007, 03:10 PM Post #110 |
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MAMIL
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Bloody right. Look at who won the American war of so-called independence, for crying out loud. A bunch of foreigners! What a swizz. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Dewey | May 17 2007, 04:49 PM Post #111 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You're right, I wasn't clear enough. I'll back up & clarify. I certainly believe that God punishes people. Any God who sends those whom he will to hell is certainly capable of justly punishing people while they're alive. And I believe that God not only is capable of such action, but actually does it, in means both direct and indirect, both toward individuals as well as peoples. But I do not believe, as in the case of the actual example cited, that God creates a disease to punish a particular group of people, only to have it destroy the lives of other people who have nothing to do with the group in question. I believe that if God wants to punish someone, God is sufficiently skillful that God will punish that person or persons, without "collateral damage." Neither do I think that when God does directly punish, God doesn't punish people for only one particular sin, but rather, as a response to a larger pattern of sinfulness. While God can and does punish directly though, I believe that most of the punishment we get is indirect, through God allowing us to suffer the consequences of our own actions and our own predicament of living in a fallen world. I believe in a God who scriptures say punishes, but of whom the scriptures also say that, as you've pointed out, it rains on the just and unjust, as well as that God's punishment is not a given, tit for tat situation. in other words, we have a God who walks the balance of Psalm 103: "Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Bless the Lord, O my soul, and do not forget all his benefits— who forgives all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases, who redeems your life from the Pit, who crowns you with steadfast love and mercy, who satisfies you with good as long as you live so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s. The Lord works vindication and justice for all who are oppressed. He made known his ways to Moses, his acts to the people of Israel. The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. He will not always accuse, nor will he keep his anger forever. He does not deal with us according to our sins, nor repay us according to our iniquities. For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far he removes our transgressions from us. As a father has compassion for his children, so the Lord has compassion for those who fear him. For he knows how we were made; he remembers that we are dust. " Most importantly, I think that while God does directly punish in specific ways in times and places as God wills, I don't think that we can ever know for sure when something is an act of divine punishment, and when it's something else. I believe that it's actually sinful to waste time trying to pass judgment on when something is, or isn't, an act of God's punishment - that doing so is an example of inappropriate focus in our own life, an illustration that we're paying too much attention to the matter of others' sinfulness, and not enough on our own. Further, it's an example that we're likely trying to make the argument that the other persons' sin is in any meaningful measure greater than our own - an attitude that I flatly disagree with. Because in truth, if God actually were going to continually, directly, temporally, and equally punish people for sin, all any of us would do all day long is dodge lightning bolts aimed at ourselves. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Jack Frost | May 17 2007, 04:50 PM Post #112 |
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Bull-Carp
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AC, this has not a lot to do with the quoted post, except that it brought a chuckle. I have been increasingly aware over the last few months of the depth of your education. Although I may not always agree--increasingly I do--your knowledge of history is really impressive. How did you get to be so smart? Seriously, I would like to know. I have this picture of you as a young Jimmy Page wannabe and I have your NOW posts. What happened in between? Maybe I should start a new thread for this? jf |
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| AlbertaCrude | May 17 2007, 04:51 PM Post #113 |
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Bull-Carp
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True enough. Thankfully he was never in position of real poiltical power to accomplish that aspect of his Great Commission. Good people made damn sure of that.
Indeed, they were radical liberals, republicans the lot of them! Not quite Jacobins but surely, Dantonists!
No. And I don't care for Jimmy Page's guitar playing at all. I'm more of an Danny Gatton fan. |
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| Jack Frost | May 17 2007, 05:49 PM Post #114 |
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Bull-Carp
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Well I agree completely, and if you haven't found the OTHER John Mayer who plays on TRIO, check him out. But really, answer my questions! jf |
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| AlbertaCrude | May 17 2007, 06:27 PM Post #115 |
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Bull-Carp
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I prefer Derek Trucks. |
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| Daniel\ | May 17 2007, 06:30 PM Post #116 |
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Fulla-Carp
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He's so modest. |
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| Jack Frost | May 17 2007, 06:35 PM Post #117 |
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Bull-Carp
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Which question was that? jf, who REALLY likes Derek Trucks too. AC, have you heard TRIO? Do you have iTunes? No, you are a pirate, aren't you. Well pirate TRIO. And get back to me. jf |
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| AlbertaCrude | May 17 2007, 06:36 PM Post #118 |
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Bull-Carp
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Not really, I do not download music. Christ, I don't even own an iPod! |
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| Jack Frost | May 17 2007, 06:58 PM Post #119 |
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Bull-Carp
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No, I was remembering the copying all the library cd's--maybe wrong guy. Anyway, TRIO was the band not the cd--it is called TRY. I would email it to you but I bought it on iTunes and it won't play on your computer. Seriously, how do you know so much stuff? Just a simple answer here or I WILL have to start a whole thread about it. You are really well educated in this history stuff. Is that from schooling or a lot of reading...or have you just been around for a couple of centuries? jf |
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| JBryan | May 17 2007, 07:04 PM Post #120 |
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I am the grey one
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He is an immortal. There can be only one. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| AlbertaCrude | May 17 2007, 08:08 PM Post #121 |
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Bull-Carp
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No, that would be me. Thank you for the offer but please do not email me anything. I immensly dislike PM's and have, in fact, banned most posters from sending any to me. Most I delete without reading. |
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| kenny | May 17 2007, 08:09 PM Post #122 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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AC, you are more of a grouchy grump than Jose.
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| AlbertaCrude | May 17 2007, 08:11 PM Post #123 |
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Bull-Carp
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Bite me. |
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| kenny | May 17 2007, 08:13 PM Post #124 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Leave your window open when you go to sleep tonight.
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| AlbertaCrude | May 17 2007, 08:15 PM Post #125 |
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Bull-Carp
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Too late Kenny. I am already the one of the unDead (nod and wink to jf).. |
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