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Are we really nearing the limits of our tolerance?
Topic Started: May 11 2007, 09:54 PM (428 Views)
The Iconoclast
Advanced Member
I wonder what it will finally take, and what measures we will resort to.

http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson051107.html
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Along those lines, I got this email (author unknown):


A man whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War Two owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.


"Very few people were true Nazis "he said," but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories."

We are told again and again by "experts" and "talking heads" that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace.

Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam. The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history.

It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave.

It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. The hard quantifiable fact is that the "peaceful majority" the "silent majority" is cowed and extraneous.

Communist Russia comprised Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population, it was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.

The average Japanese individual prior to World War 2 was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel and bayonet.

And, who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were "peace loving"?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence.

Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awake one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

As for us who watch it all unfold; we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
There are many on this board - people with above-average intelligence - who don't have a clue. They are cemented into a belief system that dictates "people are just people", "if we understand them, we can live in peace", etc.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

When a group of fanatics is committed to a destruction of your way of life, and conversion by the sword, only a fool would not be alarmed.

History is littered with th corpses of fools....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
May 12 2007, 07:25 AM
There are many on this board - people with above-average intelligence - who don't have a clue. They are cemented into a belief system that dictates "people are just people", "if we understand them, we can live in peace", etc.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

When a group of fanatics is committed to a destruction of your way of life, and conversion by the sword, only a fool would not be alarmed.

History is littered with th corpses of fools....

Posted Image
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Jolly
May 12 2007, 07:25 AM
There are many on this board - people with above-average intelligence - who don't have a clue. They are cemented into a belief system that dictates "people are just people", "if we understand them, we can live in peace", etc.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

When a group of fanatics is committed to a destruction of your way of life, and conversion by the sword, only a fool would not be alarmed.

History is littered with th corpses of fools....

Speaking only for myself, I understand that there are fanatics, and I understand that they would love to eradicate us. And I understand that we need to deal with them, in a rather final way.

However, I don't know how you separate the fanatics from everyone else. And I'm not willing to kill millions (or billions) or to sacrifice fundamental human rights simply because history is written by the winners.

It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Quirt, The problem with that approach, if you follow IT's premise, is that when we finally wake up the 'peace loving Muslims' will no longer be peaceful. They, like the German population, will have no choice but to go along with the jihadists. At that point we will have no choice but to kill millions or billions.

It is not a matter of human rights. This is as animal kingdom as it gets, and we would do welll to remember that we are still members of it.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Islam is foul.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Outstanding article, by the way.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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apple
one of the angels
QuirtEvans
May 12 2007, 07:44 AM


However, I don't know how you separate the fanatics from everyone else. And I'm not willing to kill millions (or billions) or to sacrifice fundamental human rights simply because history is written by the winners.

6 million Jews are hardly winners
it behooves me to behold
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
I actually agree with Quirt. We will accomplish nothing by indiscriminate killing of Muslims. It will only set all of them and the rest of the world against us beside the fact that it is just plain wrong. There has to be an effort to change the culture of hatred that breeds radical Muslims. That is the only long term solution. Geoge Bush's strategy of fostering Democracy in the region is just such a solution. It is by no means clear that it can even work but we have to try something other than tracking down radicals and killing them alone. Many do not agree with his approach but they seem not to have any workable ideas of their own.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
JBryan
May 12 2007, 01:11 PM
I actually agree with Quirt. We will accomplish nothing by indiscriminate killing of Muslims. It will only set all of them and the rest of the world against us beside the fact that it is just plain wrong. There has to be an effort to change the culture of hatred that breeds radical Muslims. That is the only long term solution. Geoge Bush's strategy of fostering Democracy in the region is just such a solution. It is by no means clear that it can even work but we have to try something other than tracking down radicals and killing them alone. Many do not agree with his approach but they seem not to have any workable ideas of their own.

I don't know whether to be pleased that you agree with me, or offended that you sound surprised about it. <_<
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Oh, take it as a compliment, Quirt!

I did not mean to give the impression that I support wholesale slaughter of Muslims.

But I have consistently stated my problem with Muslims as a whole is they are not loudly and forcefully condemning the actions of their more extreme brethren. If they do not, they stand the very real risk of losing their ability to do so as the more extreme elements continue to beat the drum of jihad. At the point where that happens the west will have no option other than a bloodbath.

We very much need to stay the course we are on in Iraq. We have to succeed.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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The Devil Himself
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Junior Carp
'I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
While the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank'

Catchy tune, don't you think? :whistle:
Please allow me to introduce myself
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
When the day arrives that Islam can collectively accept that in retaliation to its violence and terror we can and will unreservedly hurt them more than they can ever possibly hurt us, will be the day they cast off the complacency that fuels the cult of terror and coercion in their religion.

While I don't advocate indiscriminate and wholesale slaughter, I do not advocate much in the way of routine respect, acceptance or mercy either.
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apple
one of the angels
QuirtEvans
May 13 2007, 07:45 AM
JBryan
May 12 2007, 01:11 PM
I actually agree with Quirt. We will accomplish nothing by indiscriminate killing of Muslims. It will only set all of them and the rest of the world against us beside the fact that it is just plain wrong. There has to be an effort to change the culture of hatred that breeds radical Muslims. That is the only long term solution. Geoge Bush's strategy of fostering Democracy in the region is just such a solution. It is by no means clear that it can even work but we have to try something other than tracking down radicals and killing them alone. Many do not agree with his approach but they seem not to have any workable ideas of their own.

I don't know whether to be pleased that you agree with me, or offended that you sound surprised about it. <_<

you should welcome every compliment that you get :tongue:
it behooves me to behold
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
apple
May 13 2007, 12:00 PM

you should welcome every compliment that you get :tongue:

What if I say "You know, Quirt, that's no where near as boneheaded as your usual posts" ;)
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
I'd be mortally offended. I'm sure it's just as boneheaded as my usual posts, if not more so.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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apple
one of the angels
happy mother's day Quirt
it behooves me to behold
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