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| Have you ever been to a "Working woman"? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 7 2007, 08:50 PM (991 Views) | |
| Nobody's Sock | May 8 2007, 10:10 AM Post #26 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Is that what the working girl called it upon further inspection? |
| "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." | |
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| CrashTest | May 8 2007, 10:15 AM Post #27 |
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Pisa-Carp
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The preparation of the direction caused a revolution in the institution, but thankfully no vaccination or castration! But by the grace of mastication, we've all experienced transubstantiation without a moment's hesitation, enough to cause nullified elation! I must say my matriculation went well at the gas station. The propitiation of gas caused an inoculation, but that stopped with a gestation towards it's disapprobation. Nothing beats the proletarianization, but I sure likes lotion... |
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| Terry | May 8 2007, 01:09 PM Post #28 |
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Junior Carp
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No NY Knicks fans on board, hm?![]() You're all sounding like "Clyde the Glide" Washington, their color commentator. Perhaps you've seen the awful "just for men" gel ad with Clyde and Keith Hernandez? reeeee jected! |
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| George K | May 8 2007, 06:31 PM Post #29 |
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Finally
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Prostitutes and Politics Why is it still illegal to pay for sex? Cathy Young | May 7, 2007 The resignation of Randall Tobias, the chief of the Bush administration's foreign aid programs, for "personal reasons" following the revelation that he had engaged the services of two escort-service workers has provided rich grist for amusement on the punditry circuit. There was indeed plenty of material for humor in the situation, from Tobias's strong stand in favor of abstinence teaching in AIDS prevention programs to his "I didn't inhale"-style assertion that he never had sex with the women. But the predictable laughs have obscured a much larger issue than hypocrisy in the ranks of social conservatives. The reason Tobias's call-girl adventures became public is that the owner of the Washington, DC-based service, Pamela Martin, is facing prosecution and has turned her records over to news organizations to help pay for her legal defense. Even those who feel a certain schadenfreude at Tobias's downfall should be asking the question: should there have been a criminal case in the first place? Prostitution is currently legal in virtually all developed nations, though often surrounded by restrictions and regulations. It is illegal everywhere in the United States except Nevada and, by a legal quirk, in Rhode Island if all transactions are conducted in a private residence. Yet prostitution is perhaps the ultimate victimless crime: a consensual transaction in which both parties are supposedly committing a crime, and the person most likely to be charged—the one selling sex—is also the one most likely to be viewed as the victim. (A bizarre inversion of this situation occurs in Sweden, where, as a result of feminist pressure to treat prostitutes as victims, it is now a crime to pay for sex but not to offer it for sale.) It is sometimes claimed that the true victims of prostitution are the johns' wives. But surely women whose husbands are involved in noncommercial—and sometimes quite expensive—extramarital affairs are no less victimized. Another common claim is that prostitution causes direct harm by contributing to the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS. However, that may be the reddest herring of them all. In Australia, where sex for money is legal, the rate of HIV infection among female prostitutes is so low that prostitution has been removed from the list of known risk factors in HIV surveillance. In the U.S., reliable data are more difficult to come by, but a 1987 Centers for Disease Control study likewise found very low infection rates among prostitutes. It's the criminalization of prostitution that does take actual victims. Take Brandy Britton, briefly notorious as "Madam Professor." In January 2001 the 41-year old Britton, who had taught sociology and anthropology at the University of Maryland-Baltimore County until quitting in 1999 amidst conflicts with colleagues and allegations of falsifying research, was arrested on prostitution charges. Britton had allegedly advertised on the Internet as "Alexis Angel," "a very passionate full-service, GFE (girl friend experience) escort and erotic masseuse," stressing her intelligence and education and charging from $300 an hour to $2,500 a day for her services. A year later, the week before her scheduled trial, Britton committed suicide. While Britton may not have led an admirable life—her last occupation aside, her academic career seems to have been undone by professional misconduct and a habit of making unsubstantiated sex-discrimination charges—surely her death was a needless tragedy. It's hard to see who benefited from the fact that the authorities in Maryland spent a lot of taxpayer money to investigate and prosecute a woman for discreet and private sexual encounters with men—encounters that would have been perfectly legal if, instead of directly paying her for sex, those men had spent an equivalent amount on dates and gifts. As with other victimless crimes, the criminalization of prostitution creates a vast breeding ground for corruption, hypocrisy, and morally dubious law enforcement tactics. Thus, open advertisement of escort services is widely tolerated under the flimsy pretext that clients are paying for companionship, "modeling," "role play" and other non-sexual activities, and that when sex occurs it's by mutual choice unrelated to any fees. Selective enforcement is the norm, as is entrapment. Anti-prostitution campaigns are also frequently accompanied by the Big Brother-ish practice of state-sponsored public shaming. Not to mention how black market constitution makes it more difficult to police the sex slave trade, where the prostitutes really are victims. Unlike some defenders of prostitution such as "Mayflower Madam" Sydney Biddle Barrows, I do not believe that selling sex should ever be seen as an empowering or liberating way of life, or an affirmation of female sexuality. (If anything, it perpetuates the notion that sex is something women do for male enjoyment.) I do not believe, as sex-positive feminist Susie Bright has written, that "sex-work professionals are [among] the future's largest contingents of the new het-sex liberation front." Nor do I think that disapproval of sex for profit invariably stems from a residual notion that sex is bad, or that "sex work" should be destigmatized as just another career. But there is a vast difference between social stigma and criminal prosecution, between personal moral judgment and the nanny state. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| CrashTest | May 8 2007, 09:06 PM Post #30 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Interesting article - it is funny how this is still a very mixed issue, but oddly enough there seems to be more support for it becoming legal than opposition! I bet all 11 of the people who voted against it are women. :lol:
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| CTPianotech | May 8 2007, 09:12 PM Post #31 |
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Fulla-Carp
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at least one man voted no in reality. your poll was not about the legality, only the morality or actuality. |
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| CrashTest | May 8 2007, 10:35 PM Post #32 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Yeah, but it seems like the morality heavily governs the legality as well. Although not always, to me abortion is much worse than consenting prostitution that does not hurt anyone, but there are always problems of course. |
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| ivorythumper | May 9 2007, 09:24 AM Post #33 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I voted "no". I never have and never would visit a prostitute. I think it is morally reprehensible, as well as pathetic and malforming, but I don't think it should be illegal. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| ***musical princess*** | May 9 2007, 09:27 AM Post #34 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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If a man wants to do that...well... i guess it's his choice. However, if i ever found out my boyfriend/fiance/husband had visited one, he would no longer hold the afore mentioned position in my life. Yuck. x |
| x Caroline x | |
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| John D'Oh | May 9 2007, 09:34 AM Post #35 |
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MAMIL
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Prostitution does hurt people. Just because someone consents to be exploited and dehumanised doesn't mean that they are happy about it happening. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Dewey | May 9 2007, 09:39 AM Post #36 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Not to mention the family members who are hurt and who had no part in the decision. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| TomK | May 9 2007, 09:47 AM Post #37 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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John, you've been going to the wrong kind of prostitutes. :lol: :lol: :lol: |
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| musicasacra | May 9 2007, 09:54 AM Post #38 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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to the men who voted yes or think it's cool, see: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=knob+rot
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| ivorythumper | May 9 2007, 09:56 AM Post #39 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I agree. The other day I went to a Catholic Charities breakfast. They sponsor a program called "Respect" that helps women get out of prostitution. One of the guests was one of their clients, a former prostitute from age 14 who had been addicted to crack and whose sister was killed by a john. She spoke about the life, the degradation, the abuse and the hopelessness. She also spoke about how the organization not only saved her life, but helped to restore her dignity and self respect. Victimless crime -- BS!!! |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| John D'Oh | May 9 2007, 10:04 AM Post #40 |
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MAMIL
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Two serious posts in one thread, I'm slipping Movies such as Pretty Woman, referred to in the original post, have about as much connection with prostitution and real life as do the glamorous, sophisticated well-dressed individuals who make up the casts of so many movies about organised crime. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| TomK | May 9 2007, 10:12 AM Post #41 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Of course there are lots (though a minority) of women that make a good deal of money from their exploits and do so quite willingly. As with anything else--it's a mixed bag. Overall though, it's a societal evil and should be repressed. |
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| Nobody's Sock | May 9 2007, 10:30 AM Post #42 |
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Fulla-Carp
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or at least heavily taxed as in Nevada! (going to Carson City this very weekend to visit Mom) It's there, it's organized, they're willing, and it's legal. The other side of this mixed bag I believe. |
| "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." | |
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| QuirtEvans | May 9 2007, 11:05 AM Post #43 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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There are many, many ways that people can be exploited and dehumanized with their consent. Would you make all of them illegal? Want to start with swimsuit models?
Family members can be hurt by many decisions in which they have no part. For example, you could be adamantly anti-war, and your son can enlist in the Marines without your knowledge or approval. Your daughter could be "with the band". Your wife could have a screaming fight with the high school principal, to the detriment of your kids, who still have to go to school there. Your husband could decide to perform abortions, or wear women's clothing in public. I'm not for legalizing prostitution, really. I just don't think either of you have made yet a persuasive case why it should be illegal. If I were going to make the case, I would argue that the act of sex is just different and has a far greater emotional toll, particularly on women. But that's just me. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| TomK | May 9 2007, 11:23 AM Post #44 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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There are really two different discussions here. 1. White slave trade. 2. Voulentary sex service. The first--is wrong--but any standard. The second is "business."
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| John D'Oh | May 9 2007, 11:41 AM Post #45 |
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MAMIL
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I wasn't trying to. I don't think it makes much difference whether it's legal or not, it still ain't right. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| ivorythumper | May 9 2007, 11:45 AM Post #46 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I'm just going to let that one slide...
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| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| TomK | May 9 2007, 11:49 AM Post #47 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I saw that one, too. But even though NS and I don't agree on much--hey it's his MOM!
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| Nobody's Sock | May 9 2007, 11:50 AM Post #48 |
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Fulla-Carp
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thank you. I did set myself up didn't I? The brothels are less than 15 minutes out of town. I admit it, I've been to them a couple of times eons ago when I lived there and never really felt I got my money's worth. Now, I hear it's crazy expensive. Bring your Visa. |
| "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." | |
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| Dewey | May 9 2007, 11:57 AM Post #49 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You beat me to the punch, John. I wasn't making any comment on whether it should be legal or not, only that it is hurtful even if those engaging in it have consented to it. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| TomK | May 9 2007, 12:01 PM Post #50 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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That wasn't the joke, dufus.
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6:41 AM Jul 11