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| How much fingering do you write in?; On your sheet music. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 25 2007, 04:14 AM (700 Views) | |
| George K | Apr 25 2007, 04:14 AM Post #1 |
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Finally
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Looking at Pianojerome's "What are you playing these days" thread, I saw this picture posted by Kenny:![]() I was struck that ALL the fingerings are written in. I usually write in whatever is not expected (where the hand doesn't naturally fall), or where something other than what's printed feels better. What does everyone else do? |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| RosemaryTwo | Apr 25 2007, 04:18 AM Post #2 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Oh, oh, oh, oh. I was JUST wondering that when I saw Kenny's piece. I'm writing a WHOLE lot in right now (okay, even some sharp and flat signs), but my teacher growing up kept a tight reign on the pencil. I'm not sure how I feel on the issue, now that I'm a full-grown adult and can make my own decisions. |
| "Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua | |
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| JBryan | Apr 25 2007, 04:24 AM Post #3 |
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I am the grey one
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I don't write anything. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| apple | Apr 25 2007, 04:46 AM Post #4 |
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one of the angels
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i have about 1 fingering per page.. i usually erase it |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| Larry | Apr 25 2007, 04:48 AM Post #5 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Now that's what I call a complicated bass line.......... |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| George K | Apr 25 2007, 04:55 AM Post #6 |
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Finally
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It's Mozart, Larry. He wrote some funky bass lines, didn't he? |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| AndyD | Apr 25 2007, 05:19 AM Post #7 |
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Senior Carp
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I remember when I was being taught my teacher wrote in fingering - but always had me erase it from the music when it was learnt and ensured the music was thoroughly cleaned before an examination. I write in fingering for my two daughters who I teach; my elder one (11) now prefers to annotate herself after some discussion. This is good as her hands are smaller and given fingering is not always appropriate. She also writes in unfamiliar notes when they are above or below the lines. I think it's all part of learning and we're all at different stages. As for my own efforts, I pencil in like you George - where it's not obvious what fingering is to be used, or better fingering is discovered for awkward/fast bits etc (e.g. thirds as in the picture, long right hand runs that suit bowling or even just 12121 fingering, left hand walking tenths where 4 & 5 can be used with the thumb to smooth things). Regards Andy |
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Every morning the soul is once again as good as new, and again one offers it to one's brothers & sisters in life. | |
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| George K | Apr 25 2007, 05:25 AM Post #8 |
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Finally
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| kenny | Apr 25 2007, 05:27 AM Post #9 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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TONS It is embarassing. A drunk monkey could play my scores. There are places where I do not write in the fingering. And no, it does not make sense. The TNCRers who relish putting me down at every opportunity would have a field day pointing out. . . why'd you write in fingering *here* but not *there*? I don't make sense. (and thank God I now know I don't have to.) I'll take more pics later. I am soooo stupid, sometimes I even draw horizontal colored lines that start at a note to help me know when to let go of it. I started reading music at age 40 and it is really hard for me. My teacher says, "Whatever it takes." I had a fellow student look at my Urtext and say, "OH MY GOD! You,ve runied your book." I think playing beautifully is all that matters. |
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| George K | Apr 25 2007, 05:47 AM Post #10 |
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Finally
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Kenny, don't misunderstand, it was not my intent to embarass. I was genuinely curious. Some things make music come easier, some make it more difficult. It is, as you said, all about making the music beatiful, and if whatever you do (write in fingerings, lines) enables that, then you're successful. I have no intent of being "snobby" about it, any more than I am about the name on the fallboard of a piano. If it makes music that's pleasing to *you*, you have been successful. Reading music is something so counter-intuitive that we tend to forget, and anything that helps..well, it helps. My frustration is my inablity to memorize. I've given up. The way I see it, the more time I spend memorizing is the less time I spend playing new music...and there's so much out there. So, when I play, I always have the score in front of me. My teacher doesn't care. She says that it's all about me, and that I should do what makes me happy. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| kenny | Apr 25 2007, 05:52 AM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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George, no problem. I am not sincerely embarassed. I just use the term to have a little fun with the subject. I knew this would come up when I posted my pic. I'm glad it did. It is a great subject. I am clueless why people/teachers think of sheet music as some sacred text, never to be written in. I think Glenn Gould once said (circa) "I never write in fingering because it is obvious." I memorize well and automatically, which means I am a horrible sight reader. I need all the help I can get. Sightreading is VERY non-intuitive for me. I hate SOOO many things about how publishers write music on the page. I am always complaining to my teacher how it would be 10 times easier to read if they just wrote it this or that way.
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| George K | Apr 25 2007, 06:00 AM Post #12 |
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Finally
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When I was in my youth, I was a terrible sight-reader as well. It has always been one of my frustrations. When I returned to playing 2 1/2 years ago, I was determined to become a better sight-reader. I downloaded some Mozart, Haydn sonatas and devoted about 1 1/2 hours per week to sight-reading: usually the adagios, and usually on Sunday afternoons. It has made a huge difference. You begin to see patterns and much becomes intuitive. Perhaps that's why I'm finding Ravel hard: non-intuitive (for me), and strange patterns. Anyway, the only way to learn to sight-read is to sight-read. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| kenny | Apr 25 2007, 06:01 AM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Oh yeah. I've noticed that (when I am about half way to learning a piece) when I read I am usually only looking at the fingering numbers and not the notes. Music is very tactile for me. It is more about the physical process of moving the fingers correctly than thinking in terms of musical theory. (Though I do develop a very strong impression of how it is supposed to sound.) Maybe that explains my need to write in a lot of fingering. It is like the lines on the road that keep me on track. |
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| Phlebas | Apr 25 2007, 06:22 AM Post #14 |
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Bull-Carp
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I write in fingerings that are not obvious. If I was playing the section Kenny posted, I would write in 2/1 over the F# - A in the rh ( that's a better fingering for me), and it would be obvious to me that the G - Bb would be 1-3, and the Bb-D would be 3-5; so I don't need to write them in. I don't have tons of fingerings written in; only the ones that are odd (starting a Bb scale with 1, for example). |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| apple | Apr 25 2007, 06:42 AM Post #15 |
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one of the angels
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i don't memorize. i remember stuff from my youth.. Fur Elise, Haydn's hungarian rondo, Rondo alla turca. i also have memorized some etudes.. i don't know how that happened. |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| LWpianistin | Apr 25 2007, 06:48 AM Post #16 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Same as George - whenever it's different than the written fingering, or when it's unnatural for me. |
| And how are you today? | |
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| AndyD | Apr 25 2007, 07:13 AM Post #17 |
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Senior Carp
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Kenny, I am always full of admiration for people who take up a challenging hobby anytime after twentysomething, especially if they aren't retired with loads of spare time. I feel those of us who were forced to take lessons and learned to read the grand staff as children are lucky. Another thing I sometimes pencil in is the start of pedalling, using a simple L underneath. Also I use a vertical line through the treble clef to say 'breathe' as in phrasing. Whatever works to remind me how to get to the sound. Regards Andy |
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Every morning the soul is once again as good as new, and again one offers it to one's brothers & sisters in life. | |
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| Mark | Apr 25 2007, 08:28 AM Post #18 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I will write in fingerings but not every one. Just the top or bottom and the finger-overs etc. I memorize everything I play. After I learn the piece the score just confuses me. I will revisit the score to refine the phrasing, reinforce the memory, etc. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| kenny | Apr 25 2007, 08:29 AM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well put. Me too. |
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| Tav D | Apr 25 2007, 09:01 AM Post #20 |
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Junior Carp
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I also agree, "Whatever it takes" or "Whatever works". I sometimes write in detailed fingering for a passage, especially if there are no fingerings included already. Other times I only place a single number at important places, such as the beginning of a scale run in a Mozart Sonata as an example. When I was learning Rachmaninoff Preludes I often had to write in fingerings for almost every single note/chord in a few of them. Others were pretty easy as far as the best fingering to use. |
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| Copper | Apr 25 2007, 12:27 PM Post #21 |
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Shortstop
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I agree. I started at 50. Sometimes it seems like "Whatever it takes" still isn't enough. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| TomK | Apr 25 2007, 12:48 PM Post #22 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I white out the fingering that's already put on the music.
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| plays88keys | Apr 25 2007, 02:37 PM Post #23 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Usually not that much with one exception: Bach. I write the fingering in for every single note. |
| You can never get enough of what you don't need to make you happy. | |
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| bachophile | Apr 25 2007, 07:18 PM Post #24 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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as he might of done himself....![]() A close-up of the first bar of Applicatio in C major, BWV 994, from Klavierbüchlein für Wilhelm Friedemann Bach that shows the fingering guide on the score. This is one of only two surviving works that have the fingering marks written in Bach's own hand. now why would he do that 3 4 3 4 and not 1 2 3 4... a genius, i tell u, a genius. |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| AlbertaCrude | Apr 26 2007, 09:47 AM Post #25 |
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Bull-Carp
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Fingering suggestions? Sorabji-Ravel Rhapsodie Espangnole |
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12:33 AM Jul 11