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| Legal abortion comes to Latin America | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 24 2007, 09:04 AM (1,058 Views) | |
| kenny | Apr 24 2007, 09:04 AM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/04/...n.ap/index.html MEXICO CITY, Mexico (AP) -- Mexico City lawmakers were voting to legalize abortion Tuesday after weeks of candlelight vigils, marches and dueling appeals from the Vatican and reproductive rights groups around the world. The proposal -- which would take effect with the leftist mayor's signature -- has alarmed Mexico's conservative ruling party. It likely will influence government policies and women's health practices across Mexico and in other parts of heavily Roman Catholic Latin America, and give poor women seeking abortions an alternative to back alleys and folk practices. Nationally, Mexico allows abortion only in cases of rape, severe birth defects or if the mother's life is at risk. Mexico City's leftist government would legalize it in all cases during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. The city legislature -- dominated by leftist lawmakers -- was expected to easily approve the measure Tuesday. Opponents have pledged a Supreme Court appeal, arguing that life begins at conception and the law would violate the Mexican Constitution's protection of individual rights. Across Latin America, abortion is legal for all women only in Cuba and Guyana. Most countries allow it only in cases of rape or when the mother's life is at risk. Nicaragua, El Salvador and Chile ban it completely. "This will serve as a model to get abortion accepted nationwide, but also in Latin America and the Caribbean, where women who interrupt their pregnancies are still sent to jail," said Elba Garcia, 24, riding atop a flatbed truck in an abortion rights caravan Monday. "Legal abortion is a fundamental right," supporters on the balloon-decked trucks chanted over loudspeakers. The convoy passed by the street corner where sociologist Bernardo Lopez, 46, and three other anti-abortion advocates have fasted since Sunday trying to change the minds of city legislators. "The Mexican people have strong values, and fundamentally support life," Lopez said as the caravan passed by. "We don't want this to become an example for other states, so we are going to continue fighting by all means." But recent newspaper polls showed that a majority of Mexico City residents support legalized abortions, at least in the first weeks of pregnancy. President Felipe Calderon opposes the proposal, and the Vatican sent its top anti-abortion campaigner to the Mexican capital. Church leaders have led marches and protests, pushing the limits of Mexico's constitutional ban on political activity by religious groups. Armando Martinez, president of the College of Catholic Lawyers, plans to pursue the court appeal. He also submitted a petition Monday, signed by 36,000 people, calling for a city referendum on abortion. The city and its suburbs are home to about one-fifth of the country's population, and Mexicans already are accustomed to traveling to the capital for medical treatment. Martinez said the law "could act as a magnet" for women from across Mexico seeking abortions. An estimated 200,000 women have illegal abortions each year in Mexico, based on the number who show up at hospitals later seeking treatment for complications, said Martha Micher, director of the Mexico City government's Women's Institute. Botched abortions kill about 1,500 women each year and are the third-leading cause of death for pregnant women in the capital, Micher said. "Of those that die, most are young and poor," Micher said; more wealthy women "go to clinics abroad, where nobody knows them ... and have safe abortions." None of the arguments put forward by the bill's supporters convince Elena Velasco, a 30-year-old lawyer who passed out anti-abortion leaflets before the vote. "There should be better campaigns for the use of contraceptives, before we go to the lengths of legalizing abortion," Velasco said. "I see it as the murder of a young life in the making." |
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| kenny | Apr 24 2007, 09:06 AM Post #2 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'm very surprised given the power of the Catholic church there. Perhaps this will reduce the pressure for poor people to move north and climb our fence. |
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| TomK | Apr 24 2007, 09:12 AM Post #3 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Actually, The Catholic Church has very little direct power in Mexico since the Mexican Revolution in 1911. |
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| Dewey | Apr 24 2007, 12:51 PM Post #4 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I had no idea that the illegal immigration problem we faced was due to pregnant Latinos coming here to get abortions. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| kenny | Apr 24 2007, 12:55 PM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Dewey I was thinking more along these lines: The article says rich Mexican women travel to get safe abortions. That leaves a disproportionate number of poor women giving birth to Mexican babies. (or using hangars back in the alley) Then these poor babies grow up. Who jumps the wall? People who need work. I was not implying pregnant women are climbing the wall.
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| TomK | Apr 24 2007, 01:05 PM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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From Forbes: By Helen Coster Updated: 1:52 p.m. ET April 13, 2007 For seven years Warren Buffett, the so-called Oracle of Omaha, ranked just behind his good friend and bridge partner Bill Gates as the world's second-richest man. That era is over, at least temporarily. On March 29, Mexican telecom titan Carlos Slim Helú quietly slipped past the value investor. As of market close Tuesday, Slim is worth $53.1 billion, compared with Buffett's $52.4 billion. He is also breathtakingly close to passing Gates, currently worth $56.0 billion. Gates, who co-founded Microsoft in 1975, has been the world’s richest man for a record 13 years. Slim added $4 billion to his fortune in the two months since we locked in net worths for our annual billionaires rankings. His second-largest holding, Carso Global Telecom, which controls ubiquitous fixed-line operator Telmex, has jumped 15 percent in that time. His biggest holding, wireless operator America Movil, is up 4 percent since it announced earlier this month that it was in talks to buy a third of Olimpia, the holding company that controls Telecom Italia. By contrast, Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway shares have slipped slightly. Slim's latest gains continue an amazing run for the 67-year-old tycoon. He has added $23 billion to his fortune over the last 14 months. The surge has been fueled largely by a strong Mexican economy and a stock market that jumped 49 percent in 2006. The Mexican magnate's rising fortune has caused a good deal of controversy because it has been amassed in a nation where per capita income is less than $6,800 a year and half the population lives in poverty. Critics claim he is a monopolist, pointing to Telmex’s control of 90 percent of the Mexican landline telephone market. Slim's wealth is the equivalent of roughly 7 percent of Mexico's annual economic output. If Gates had a similar proportion in the U.S., he'd be worth $874 billion. Slim says he is unfazed by the criticism. "When you live for others' opinions, you are dead. I don't want to live thinking about how I'll be remembered,” he said earlier this year. He also claims indifference about his ranking and says he has no interest in becoming the world's richest person. When asked to explain his sudden increase in wealth at a press conference soon after our annual billionaire rankings were published, he reportedly said, "The stock market goes up ... and down," and note that his fortune could quickly drop. These days, Slim insists his biggest concern is using his wealth to help solve Mexico's social ills. A year ago he infused one of his foundations, which had been long neglected, with $1.8 billion. In the fall he pledged to donate up to $10 billion to health and education programs over the next four years. Still, he poked fun at his American counterparts' much-ballyhooed philanthropic efforts at a recent press conference. "Poverty isn’t solved with donations," he reportedly said, adding that building businesses often does more for society than "going around like Santa Claus." BTW: Slim is pretty fat. |
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| George K | Apr 24 2007, 01:05 PM Post #7 |
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Finally
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You're halfway there, Dewey. Just the ending part is wrong.
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Dewey | Apr 24 2007, 01:12 PM Post #8 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Kenny, to this post, all I can say is wow, and OK. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| kenny | Apr 24 2007, 01:13 PM Post #9 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Sounds like Mexico has more hungry mouths than it can feed/employ. Doesn't abortion prevent more mouths? Sorry to be the monster here, but it sounds like abstinence in this heavily Catholic country isn't working too well. People screw. Babies happen. There are too many people, too few jobs. We are building walls to keep them out. I'd think all the righties would embrace abortion of the people they are trying to exclude. So it is more moral to let them be born, poor and suffering, and build walls? ![]() It just seems being anti-abortion and building a wall is hypocritical. |
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| TomK | Apr 24 2007, 01:17 PM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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kenny, Honestly, from what you told us about your early life--don't you think you might have just as easily been aborted? We would have missed you. |
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| kenny | Apr 24 2007, 01:23 PM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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If a woman doesn't want to have a baby she should not be forced by the government or the church to have it. You guys whine about women being forced to cover their heads? A piece of cloth ain't nothing compared to forcing motherhood on the unwilling. I think this is an important step in a very repressed part of the world. |
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| TomK | Apr 24 2007, 01:28 PM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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kenny we tell women all the time what they can and can't do with their bodies--can't be a hooker--can't smuggle drugs in body cavities. Back to you: Think your mother might have had an abortion if the laws at the time were a bit different? |
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| Moonbat | Apr 24 2007, 01:29 PM Post #13 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Non-existent, never-were people aren't missed. A near infinite number of hypothetical might-be future people flit from might-bes to never-going-to-bes every instant. You don't miss any of them. |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| TomK | Apr 24 2007, 01:31 PM Post #14 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Or rather they are always missed. One of the great sadnesses of the world is the people who could have made thing better--and just aren't here. |
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| kenny | Apr 24 2007, 01:36 PM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Just think. Every sperm, every egg could have been a precious little new Kenny or Tom. How tragic we allow menstsruation. What an abomination! We need stricter laws! More religion. More morality. Murder every 28 days. The horror. The horror. God meant the earth to have 256,245,248 billion people by now. How selfish, immoral and ungodly that all woman don't stay pregnant always. Afterall, everyone who could have been - should have been. I can just feel it in my heart! |
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| TomK | Apr 24 2007, 01:41 PM Post #16 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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kenny, Please answer the question of the "kenny in the woumb.". |
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| kenny | Apr 24 2007, 01:42 PM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I have no clue. She had three other kids and dad had a good job at that time. Why ask? What does my existence have to do with it? |
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| kenny | Apr 24 2007, 01:47 PM Post #18 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Tom, I think what you are getting at is, "Hey Kenny don't you like living? Then why deny life to another potential human?" Right? If so, I repeat, why accept menstruation? No, I'm not kidding. Menstruation is as much murder as abortion. Every egg was just as "intended" to become a human as every fetus is. Menstruation IS choice! Morality and all this stuff is relative. You guys just agreed on a where line to draw, and pretend you didn't. You pretend it is a God thing, or a "right" thing. I say if you oppose abortion, don't have one. Control yourself, not others. |
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| Dewey | Apr 24 2007, 01:50 PM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yes. Thousands of people are born every day, poor, suffering, and unwanted. Most of them grow up to be perectly normal people, with lives, loves, and concerns of their own, and are productive to society. Allowing them to be born is far, far, far more moral than killing them just because they may be poor and suffering at birth. If this is the "moral" argument for abortion - to look at it as simply a way to eliminate mouths to feed, take the old, the sick, the lame, the unemployed, those with an IQ under 100, those who are socially unacceptable, those who are racially impure, those who are gay. The list goes on and on. I'm sorry kenny, I love you like a cousin, but that justification for abortion is just so far beyond the pale that it makes me want to throw up. If the moral concern is poverty in Latin America, where is the moral outrage, where is the advocacy in favor of economic policies that actually grow their economy, and create increased opportunity, wealth, and jobs for all those mouths? That would seem to me to be a far more moral avenue - to advocate for more food for the mouths, rather than simply deciding which mouths should be killed for the good of the rest. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| TomK | Apr 24 2007, 01:50 PM Post #20 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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No the egg wasn't fertilized. was it? Your point is nonsense. Maybe mine is, too. Anyway glad you're here. |
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| Moonbat | Apr 24 2007, 01:53 PM Post #21 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Right and at fertilisation a magic soul of humanness gets spiritually woven into the proteins, phospholipids, nucelic acids, and sugars :rolleyes: |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| kenny | Apr 24 2007, 01:54 PM Post #22 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Oh so you draw a line at fertalizaiton? Says whom? God? A majority of people? Hmm. (Sounds like a huge agreement thing to me.) I think every egg should become another Tom or Kenny. How dare you look the other way and support the killing of potential cute little babies with cute little toes and fingers? You are a monster. |
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| TomK | Apr 24 2007, 01:55 PM Post #23 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I am. OK, I'm out of here. |
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| kenny | Apr 24 2007, 01:57 PM Post #24 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You can't handle logic? Later. |
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| Dewey | Apr 24 2007, 02:09 PM Post #25 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Oh really? Would you care to explain that to me, my wife, and the countless others who have agonized over a lost pregnancy? I pray that you never have a firsthand opportunity to realize how horrendously inaccurate that comment is. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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