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Have you tried; CFLs?
Topic Started: Apr 23 2007, 05:22 AM (546 Views)
big al
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Bull-Carp
I use a lot of CFLs (Compact Fluorescent Lamps), but they're not (IMHO) for every application. Here's a test report from Popular Mechanics comparing a number of products against a 75 Watt incandescent: Compact Fuorescent Test

They're even better in light fixtures designed to use them to their best advantage. Take a walk through a recently built high end shop or office and look up at what's in the ceiling. You may be suprised if you don't think about lights very often.

Energy efficiency is the easiest way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and new power plant and transmission line construction while saving money at the same time.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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George K
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Finally
big al
Apr 23 2007, 08:22 AM
Energy efficiency is the easiest way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and new power plant and transmission line construction while saving money at the same time.

I'm going to link to that article right after I post. However, your post was more than I bit ironic in view of Kenny's post.

Fascinating. Even the "worst" bulb, the Westinghouse, was no worse than the incandescent.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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George K
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Finally
I saw this yesterday, and thougth, I wonder if these bulbs are any good?

One Billion Bulbs
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Piano*Dad
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Bull-Carp
And to think, I thought you were into the Canadian Football League instead. :lol:
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
I haven't used any in my home yet, but I think I'll try a few.
We've started using them in the library, mainly because of their longevity (we hope). It's a heritage building, high ceilings, and huge glass shades. Nobody likes going up the ladder to take those down, so we are hoping these new bulbs will last longer!
Interesting to read the comparisons, sounds like you could not go too wrong.

What applications would you say they are not good for, Al?

:biggrin: PD, I thought he was talking football too.
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big al
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sue
Apr 23 2007, 08:47 AM
What applications would you say they are not good for, Al?

I haven't seen a really completely satisfactory substitute for reflector lamps (spotlights and floodlights). Although the fixtures designed from the start for compact fluorescent lamps work well in most applications like downlights where floods in cans were traditionally used, the replacement bulbs are not so effective. While I have some in my house, I wouldn't necessarily recommend them without qualification to others. Also, dimming applications are problematic. There are dimmable replacement CFLs available, but they tend to have limited dimming ranges and longer warm-up times to reach full brightness. [a word of warning: don't try to use a non-dimming CFL on a dimming circuit.] Cold weather use outdoors is also a problem. Various chandeliers, sconces, bathroom lights, etc. where the bulb is exposed as a visual element can't be substituted for, although the variety of CFLs continues to increase (for example, medium spheres are now available).

Many of these issues relate to the fact that you're attempting to substitute a CFL in a fixture/circuit originally designed for an incandescent lamp. They're not nearly so big a problem when the fixture and circuit are designed from the start for a fluorescent lamp. If you're building or remodeling, think about your options and long-term costs as opposed to first cost. Incandescent fixtures are still cheaper, but you pay many times thetheir cost in electricity use over their lifetime.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
sue
Apr 23 2007, 12:47 PM
:biggrin: PD, I thought he was talking football too.

:lol:

Me too!
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
I started to buy them at Costco but hated their greenish color.
They make people look like a corpse.

Then I bought these daylight-balanced ones for photography.
I liked them soooooo much I use them all over the house how.

It give a cheery outdoor-in-the-shade type of light.
One thing, it looks freaky if you have two different types of bulbs in the same room.

http://store.tabletopstudio-store.com/lightbulbs.html
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
Al, see if you can find some of these to use in your downlight fixtures:

http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/d.../2106_1664_1783

We've been using a ton of them and they're working out well. 2700K color temp is pretty "warm" but they seem to work nicely in houses. You can also get them in 3500K which is what the designers typically specify for the stores we work on. Kenny seems to llike the 6500K versions, but many people find them to be too blue.

I'd like to use them in resi kitchens/baths (a new CA energy requirement states that kitchens and baths must be lit largely by fluorescent or other high-efficiency lamps) but the requirement also states that the fixture has to be built such that incandescent lamps can not be substituted so medium base replacement lamps are out. I have not yet seen a "flood" style CFL with the bi-pin or quad-pin socket that the regulation requires.

Here are a few more to consider:

http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/d...cPath/2106_2107
Wag more
Bark less
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Steve Miller
Apr 23 2007, 09:20 PM
Kenny seems to llike the 6500K versions, but many people find them to be too blue.



I suspect 6500K would be quite blue, but the bulbs in my link are 5000K. ;)

5000K is balanced to be similar to daylight, which I find improves my mood.

We are all gotten used to the yellowish color of Thomas Edison's tungsten bulbs.
I understand most people just want what they are used to.

It's nice, today we have freedom to choose.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
Steve Miller
Apr 23 2007, 09:20 PM
Al, see if you can find some of these to use in your downlight fixtures:

http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/d.../2106_1664_1783


I'll try a couple of those for my next replacement, Steve. I'm using some of the smaller Phillips replacements in some eye-balls and I'm pretty happy with them. They don't have quite as good a beam control as an incandescent flood, but they last much, much longer, are 1/3 the wattage, and are visually indistinguishable on the illuminated surface.

I have two of the GE dimmables that I'm not thrilled with for two reasons - slow warm-up and limited dimming range on a conventional dimmer. They're ceiling lights in a basement family room. If I was doing the job new, I'd look at integral dimming ballasts and twin or quad pin lamps with a good reflector system in an open style recessed can. I think that could be the right choice for a lot of kitchen applications, too, although dimming is probably not needed there. I think the recessed luminaires designed for CFLs perform extremely well these days.

Bathrooms are a tougher choice because so many of the luminiares are a decorative element there. I don't deal in residential work, so all I know is what I see in magazines or distributors. Perhaps someone makes a multiple canopy unit that would take three or four twin pin 6 W lamps inside shades or diffusers - I really don't know. There are some nice looking strips with molded lenses that I think look very good in commercial restrooms, but might be a bit sterile for much home use. That can depend on the local market. Pittsburgh housing is mostly very traditional (think 2 story brick colonial). Something a little more modern and punchy may be fine in SoCal.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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George K
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Finally
Light Bulb Lunacy

By Steven Milloy

How much money does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent lightbulb? About $4.28 for the bulb and labor — unless you break the bulb. Then you, like Brandy Bridges of Ellsworth, Maine, could be looking at a cost of about $2,004.28, which doesn’t include the costs of frayed nerves and risks to health.

Sound crazy? Perhaps no more than the stampede to ban the incandescent light bulb in favor of compact fluorescent lightbulbs (CFLs) — a move already either adopted or being considered in California, Canada, the European Union and Australia.

According to an April 12 article in The Ellsworth American, Bridges had the misfortune of breaking a CFL during installation in her daughter’s bedroom: It dropped and shattered on the carpeted floor.

Aware that CFLs contain potentially hazardous substances, Bridges called her local Home Depot for advice. The store told her that the CFL contained mercury and that she should call the Poison Control hotline, which in turn directed her to the Maine Department of Environmental Protection.

The DEP sent a specialist to Bridges’ house to test for mercury contamination. The specialist found mercury levels in the bedroom in excess of six times the state’s “safe” level for mercury contamination of 300 billionths of a gram per cubic meter.

The DEP specialist recommended that Bridges call an environmental cleanup firm, which reportedly gave her a “low-ball” estimate of $2,000 to clean up the room. The room then was sealed off with plastic and Bridges began “gathering finances” to pay for the $2,000 cleaning. Reportedly, her insurance company wouldn’t cover the cleanup costs because mercury is a pollutant.

Given that the replacement of incandescent bulbs with CFLs in the average U.S. household is touted as saving as much as $180 annually in energy costs — and assuming that Bridges doesn’t break any more CFLs — it will take her more than 11 years to recoup the cleanup costs in the form of energy savings.

Even if you don’t go for the full-scale panic of the $2,000 cleanup, the do-it-yourself approach is still somewhat intense, if not downright alarming.

Consider the procedure offered by the Maine DEP’s Web page entitled, “What if I accidentally break a fluorescent bulb in my home?”

Don’t vacuum bulb debris because a standard vacuum will spread mercury-containing dust throughout the area and contaminate the vacuum. Ventilate the area and reduce the temperature. Wear protective equipment like goggles, coveralls and a dust mask.

Collect the waste material into an airtight container. Pat the area with the sticky side of tape. Wipe with a damp cloth. Finally, check with local authorities to see where hazardous waste may be properly disposed.

The only step the Maine DEP left off was the final one: Hope that you did a good enough cleanup so that you, your family and pets aren’t poisoned by any mercury inadvertently dispersed or missed.

This, of course, assumes that people are even aware that breaking CFLs entails special cleanup procedures.

The potentially hazardous CFL is being pushed by companies such as Wal-Mart, which wants to sell 100 million CFLs at five times the cost of incandescent bulbs during 2007, and, surprisingly, environmentalists.

It’s quite odd that environmentalists have embraced the CFL, which cannot now and will not in the foreseeable future be made without mercury. Given that there are about 4 billion lightbulb sockets in American households, we’re looking at the possibility of creating billions of hazardous waste sites such as the Bridges’ bedroom
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
When you and I were kids, George, don't you remember playing with mercury in science class? The teacher would hand it out and let everyone hold it, because it was an example of a liquid metal, and it helped her teach the concept.

It doesn't seem to have done either of us a hell of a lot of harm. /twitch
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
By the way, thanks for the links and the info, Steve. So far, I have only used CFLs in the garage, but I have a lot of recessed lighting in my house, and it might be worth trying in some of the applications, to see how it feels.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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George K
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Finally
Of course I do. It was the high point of breaking a mercury thermometer! ([size=1]I still have two left! Don't let anyone know![/size])

When my father-in-law died, I cleaned up his shop and found a jar, about 1 1/2 inches in diameter, with Mercury in it. About 1 inch deep. Can you imagine....
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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big al
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Bull-Carp
So what did you do with that jar, George? [JK. Don't tell me. I'd hate to see you in jail.]

Here is an EPA fact sheet on the subject of mercury in these lamps, if anyone is curious: EPA Fact Sheet - CFLs

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
George K
Apr 27 2007, 07:58 AM
Sound crazy? Perhaps no more than the stampede to ban the incandescent light bulb in favor of compact fluorescent lightbulbs (CFLs) — a move already either adopted or being considered in California, Canada, the European Union and Australia.


Yesterday...

The federal government will ban the sale of inefficient light bulbs by 2012 in a move to reduce energy consumption and reduce greenhouse gases....

Canada's Conservative government in action. :rolleyes2:
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Well, I'm going to die.

I've broken a few of them and probably breathed in massive amounts of mercury.

Mercury is also in the fillings of our teeth.

This article raises very legit issues.

Now, , , , , what do I do?
Whom do I listen to?
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George K
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Finally
You can find the answer here, Kenny:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/The_New_Coffee...showtopic=22494
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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