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Are you a Christian?
Yes 17 (56.7%)
No 13 (43.3%)
Total Votes: 30
Are you a Christian?
Topic Started: Apr 13 2007, 06:58 PM (435 Views)
Daniel\
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Fulla-Carp
Self explanatory


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CTPianotech
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Fulla-Carp
yes :)
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Daniel
Apr 13 2007, 06:58 PM
Self explanatory

No it is not.

Define Christian.
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
Apr 13 2007, 11:19 PM
Daniel
Apr 13 2007, 06:58 PM
Self explanatory

No it is not.

Define Christian.

Kind of is, kenny. :wave:
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
I'll bet there are people who consider themselves to be Christian that other people would consider NOT to be Christian.

Vice versa too.
Someone once PM me that since I was *once* a born again Christian (but today am not a Christian) that I will be pleasantly surprised after death to learn I get to go to heaven.

(I'm sure he/she meant it in the nicesst way but this illuminates that there is no consensus about who is a Christian or even what it means.)

Probably the cleanest poll question is "Do you consider yourself to be a Christian?"
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
Apr 13 2007, 11:26 PM
I'll bet there are people who consider themselves to be Christian that other people would consider NOT to be Christian.

Vice versa too.
Someone once PM me that since I was *once* a born again Christian (but today am not a Christian) that I will be pleasantly surprised after death to learn I get to go to heaven.

(I'm sure he/she meant it in the nicesst way but this illuminates that there is no consensus about who is a Christian.)

Probably the cleanest poll question is "Do you consider yourself to be a Christian?"

I understand where you're comming from--but I, like most Christians, don'rt really care what other people consider me. Some Born agains don't consider Catholics to be Christians (we don't woprship the REAL Jesus,) some Catholics don't consider Born agains to be Christians. Nobody much thinks Mormons are Christians--but I believe they do think of themselves as Christian. You're right: complicated.

But for what it's worth, I don't consider myself to be a Christian--I AM a Christian. Do you consider yourself to be gay--or ARE you gay?

(And kenny, I have no doubt that you will go to heaven. :wave: )

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David Burton
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TomK
Apr 13 2007, 07:48 PM
(And kenny, I have no doubt that you will go to heaven. :wave: )

I agree
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Jeffrey
Senior Carp
Yes. Ivorythumper's arguments have finally won me over by their logic and pursuasive command of facts.
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Jeffrey
Apr 14 2007, 01:28 AM
Yes. Ivorythumper's arguments have finally won me over by their logic and pursuasive command of facts.

However you Jeffery won't be as fortunate as kenny. :( :lol:
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
I believe there MAY be a god, but am not particularly concerned either way.

What does that make me?
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
TomK
Apr 13 2007, 11:48 PM
(And kenny, I have no doubt that you will go to heaven. :wave: )

You sure a Catholic (or even more generally, a Christian) would make a statement like that?
Whose call is it on who gets to go to heaven?
Where did you get the idea that you have any knowledge on how that call will me made?

;)
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jeffrey
Apr 14 2007, 01:28 AM
Yes. Ivorythumper's arguments have finally won me over by their logic and pursuasive command of facts.

A "Christian" would not make statement like this, for to be one, a "Christian" would thought himself to have received the Grace of God, not convinced by man.

;)
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Apr 14 2007, 10:20 AM
TomK
Apr 13 2007, 11:48 PM
(And kenny, I have no doubt that you will go to heaven.  :wave: )

You sure a Catholic (or even more generally, a Christian) would make a statement like that?
Whose call is it on who gets to go to heaven?
Where did you get the idea that you have any knowledge on how that call will me made?

;)

I don't have any knowledge--and this is where you (and your cohorts,) keep missing the point--I have faith.
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Jeffrey
Senior Carp
Ax: "A "Christian" would not make statement like this, for to be one, a "Christian" would thought himself to have received the Grace of God, not convinced by man."

Clearly this Christian thing is going to take a long time to learn, sort of like playing piano.

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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Jeffrey
Apr 14 2007, 11:00 AM
Ax: "A "Christian" would not make statement like this, for to be one, a "Christian" would thought himself to have received the Grace of God, not convinced by man."

Clearly this Christian thing is going to take a long time to learn, sort of like playing piano.

Actually, a Christian might very well make Jeffery's statement. People convert to Christianity for all sorts of reasons. God is of course, the initiator a person's move towards faith, but anything can be the trigger. Reasoned discussion works as well as anything else.

That's why Jehovah Whittnesses knock on doors.
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
Jeffrey
Apr 14 2007, 10:00 AM


Clearly this Christian thing is going to take a long time to learn, sort of like playing piano.

actually...on that, I will agree

As soon as you buy a piano and start lessons, you get to say "I play piano." The process of knowing how to play piano well enough to do the piano justice can take a lifetime. It requires perseverance when you make mistakes, to correct and keep trying, even when your fingers keep landing on the same wrong keys. Eventually, with practice, your muscles are trained to 'remember' the new path, and the music gets better. A lot of people who play give up a long the way, but they can still sit down at their piano and muddle through Heart and Soul. They still play, but they never applied themselves, so they didn't improve their playing.

It's not a perfect analogy, but it works on some levels.

:lol:
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
TomK
Apr 14 2007, 11:09 AM
Reasoned discussion works as well as anything else.

That's why Jehovah Whittnesses knock on doors.

Statement B cannot logically follow statement A.
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
TomK
Apr 14 2007, 07:09 AM
That's why Jehovah Whittnesses knock on doors.

I wasn't aware that they were hoping to find evangelicals and be converted to Christianity.

Wouldn't it be simpler if they just showed up at a church of their choice on Sunday?
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Riley
Apr 14 2007, 11:15 AM
TomK
Apr 14 2007, 11:09 AM
Reasoned discussion works as well as anything else.

That's why Jehovah Whittnesses knock on doors.

Statement B cannot logically follow statement A.

I didn't say reasonable--I said reasoned--meaning using reason as a tool.

As to Jeffery's conversion, I personally agree with what William James said in the Varieties of Religious Experience. It will be instantaneous. He will go to a dude ranch someday and get up on a horse thinking to himself, "one meat machine on top of another meat machine." He'll ride for a way and then the horse meat machine will buck a bit, he'll fall off ( A Jewish guy from NYC on a horse :blink: )and he'll look up and hear a voice saying, "Jeffery, Jeffery, why do you...." And you know the rest.

That's the way it always happens to smart ass Jewish guys like him. :smile:

And if you think he's a pain in the ass now--just wait till he starts preaching Jesus to us night and day. :lol:
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dolmansaxlil
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HOLY CARP!!!
No, I am not. :)
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

My Flickr Photostream


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M&M's
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Fulla-Carp
I put I am a Christian, but right now I think I'm going through a questioning phase. Not sure where I'm going to end up in the end, but I know I will always believe there is a God.
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
M&M's
Apr 14 2007, 11:58 AM
I put I am a Christian, but right now I think I'm going through a questioning phase. Not sure where I'm going to end up in the end, but I know I will always believe there is a God.

A long, long time ago, there was a guy named Thomas that had a few doubts of his own...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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