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| After Imus, What's Next? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 13 2007, 09:55 AM (1,146 Views) | |
| QuirtEvans | Apr 15 2007, 02:38 PM Post #51 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Yeah, that's what people always say about me, that I have trouble expressing myself. Congratulations, Dr. Freud, you win the award for Diagnosis of the Year. Actually, the one consistent thing people say about me, in real life, is that I don't suffer fools gladly. Which is why I find you insufferable. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Jack Frost | Apr 15 2007, 02:39 PM Post #52 |
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Bull-Carp
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Psst...Tom.... Do you think Quirt is Larry's sockpuppet? jf |
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| Mikhailoh | Apr 15 2007, 03:32 PM Post #53 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Who says that? No one here that I know of. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| TomK | Apr 15 2007, 03:33 PM Post #54 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Come on Quirt, You're ALWAYS full blast around here. You pee on a fine and decent lady because she doesn't express her thoughts as succinctly as you might wish. You quibble PAGES AND PAGES over some minor hyperbole. Buddy--you're troubled. Nothing mean, nothing nasty intended. You are too mad, too often over NOTHING. You my friend, are the fool that is insufferable. Just my $.02 |
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| Daniel\ | Apr 15 2007, 03:34 PM Post #55 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Enough said. |
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| QuirtEvans | Apr 15 2007, 04:52 PM Post #56 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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You're entitled to your two cents, Tom. Of course, you haven't noticed that Plays and I have had several pleasant conversations since then, about St. Martin, and hotels in New York, and things like that. But then, I wouldn't expect you to notice. You lock yourself into preconceptions ... like your buffoonery about my relationship with my ex .... and then you don't worry about evidence to the contrary. So your two cents is worth exactly that ... two cents. And, as I've said before, you and your conservative pals are just totally unrealistic about who is who and what is what. Otherwise, you might notice that I am far, far from the angriest person on this board. But you wouldn't want to actually say something against one of your cohorts, now would you? Which is why I really don't care what you think. Because you're a hypocrite. And hypocrites don't interest me. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Jack Frost | Apr 15 2007, 05:03 PM Post #57 |
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Bull-Carp
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There is one who is equally angry; not sure i would say more. Both of you are tiresome in your personal attacks, although I would give you the one up for substance in your posts. jf |
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| Copper | Apr 15 2007, 05:18 PM Post #58 |
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Shortstop
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Aside from that, have you been able to find out if the ACLU has offered to take up Imus' case? |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Daniel\ | Apr 15 2007, 05:22 PM Post #59 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Quirt is always friendly and respectful toward me and that is all I can really say about it. |
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| QuirtEvans | Apr 15 2007, 05:31 PM Post #60 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Small words ... There is no case. There is no realistic possibility of a case. Therefore, there is nothing to take up. There is nothing to offer to take up. Your attempt to drag the ACLU into this is a pure red herring. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Copper | Apr 15 2007, 05:47 PM Post #61 |
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Shortstop
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Hmmm, maybe you're right. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Dewey | Apr 15 2007, 06:25 PM Post #62 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'll save you the trouble; everyone knows you're talking about me. For Pete's sake, are you guys still talking about Imus? :rolleyes: |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| CTPianotech | Apr 15 2007, 06:47 PM Post #63 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Actually, they're back to talking about Imus. ![]() Wonder how long before we get to see "Imiss-Imus" t-shirts? |
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| Jack Frost | Apr 16 2007, 06:27 AM Post #64 |
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Bull-Carp
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NY Times April 16, 2007 Signs of Infection By BOB HERBERT People in positions of great power are the ones who define those who are relatively lacking in power. So when Don Imus, a very powerful radio personality, dropped his disgusting verbal bomb on the members of the Rutgers women’s basketball team, he sent a powerful message across the airwaves: that the young women on the team (the black ones, at least) were crude, ugly and genetically inferior, and that all of the women were whores. That message, which Mr. Imus insisted was meant to be funny, reinforced views already widely held in our society, which is why I could get the following e-mail from a reader: “Who woulda thunk that the Imus idiocy and the Duke Debacle would hit home on the same day. Both stories bring to mind what my father told me 60 years ago: Stay away from colored women.” The attention surrounding Mr. Imus’s very public self-immolation is an opportunity for Americans to acknowledge that we have a problem. Not only is the society still permeated by racism and sexism and the stereotypes they spawn, but we have allowed a debased and profoundly immature culture to emerge in which the coarsest, most socially destructive images and language are an integral part of the everyday discourse. Gangsta rappers trapped in the throes of the Stockholm syndrome have spent years encouraging black people to see themselves as niggers and all women as whores. Michael Savage, one of the most prominent figures in talk radio, with an audience substantially larger than Don Imus’s, has called Diane Sawyer a “lying whore” and Barbara Walters a “double-talking slut,” according to Media Matters for America, a group that monitors some of the excesses of talk radio. The culture that has given us such wonders as jazz, blues, baseball, Hollywood, the Broadway musical theater, rock ’n’ roll, and on and on, is now specializing in too many instances in language and entertainment fit only for the gutter or a sewer. Something has gone completely haywire when young American boys and girls are listening to songs like “Can You Control Yo Hoe” and “Break a Bitch Til I Die,” by Snoop Dogg, formerly Snoop Doggy Dogg, formerly Cordozar Calvin Broadus. “It’s gotten pretty savage out there,” said Tom Brokaw of NBC News during an on-air discussion of the Imus situation. Mr. Brokaw, who believes that firing Mr. Imus was the right thing to do, said: “There’s been an absence of civility in public discourse for some time now. The use of language across the racial spectrum, and across the political spectrum, and across the cultural spectrum, has been, in any way you want to describe it, debased to a certain degree. “The words that you hear used commonly on the street, or on the air, or on radio, or in rap lyrics, are words that in the worst days of segregation in this country, in the worst segregated parts of this country, you would not have heard on radio. Now you hear them commonly.” The language, of course, is just a symptom. Mr. Brokaw went on to mention, in a tone that sounded a bit sad and somewhat resigned, that Americans had steadfastly refused to face the race issue honestly and head-on. “I had hoped,” he said, “I guess somewhat naïvely 20 years ago, that we would be in a far different place than we are now.” We should also be in a better place in the way that women are viewed and portrayed in the culture. And one of the first steps in a conversation about how to honestly address these issues should be a discussion of how to get more more blacks, other ethnic minorities and women into positions of real authority in the major news and entertainment outlets. Another part of the conversation should deal with why the bullying and degradation of other human beings is such a staple of popular entertainment in this country. One of the Rutgers players expressed astonishment Thursday night when Mr. Imus told her that making fun of people was how he’d made his living for many years. The people who fought back against the racism and misogyny of the “Imus in the Morning” program need to keep the momentum going. Keep the pressure on the companies that sponsor this garbage. Keep the matter before the media. Imus, Snoop Dogg, Michael Savage — it doesn’t matter where the bigotry is coming from. What’s important is to find the integrity and the strength to see it for what it is — a loathsome, soul-destroying disease — and then to respond accordingly. jf |
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| Jack Frost | Apr 16 2007, 06:29 AM Post #65 |
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Bull-Carp
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Firing of Imus removes leader of sorry band BY LEONARD PITTS JR. lpitts@MiamiHerald.com Obviously, someone has put crack in the nation's drinking water. What else can one think after the spasms of bigotry to which Mel Gibson, Isaiah Washington, Tim Hardaway and Michael Richards have treated us over the last nine months? That's a lot of stupid in a short period of time. And then there's radio shock jock Don Imus who, as even polar bears must know by now, last week leveled racist and sexist insults against the Rutgers University women's basketball team, most of whom are black. Until then, the team was best known for a gritty season that brought them within a game of the championship. Now they are famous as the objects of a misbegotten attempt at banter between Imus and producer Bernard McGuirk. ''That's some rough girls from Rutgers,'' says Imus. ``Man, they got tattoos . . .'' ''Some hard-core hos,'' observes McGuirk. ''That's some nappy-headed hos there,'' says Imus. The resulting firestorm cost Imus many of his sponsors and his MSNBC simulcast. Thursday, CBS canceled his show outright. And there are a few things that need saying here: One, it is beyond pathetic that two grown men would use the reach and power afforded them as members of the media to mock the looks of a bunch of college girls. Two, while it is fitting that Imus' slur has angered and energized the African-American community, one hopes we'll see this same indignation next time some idiot black rapper (paging Snoop Dogg) refers to black women in terms this raw or worse. Indeed, it's doubtful Imus would have even known the word ''ho'' -- black slang for ''whore'' -- had idiot black rappers not spent the last 20 years popularizing it. Three, to make this about Don Imus is to miss the point. There is something entirely too precious about all this, particularly the expressions of shock and disappointment by Imus' media friends and his corporate partners. To put it another way: What did Imus do last week that he has not done repeatedly? We're talking about a man who has built a career on verbal diarrhea. He has slurred women and gays and blacks and Jews. He once referred to Gwen Ifill as ``the cleaning lady.'' Yet none of that was enough to keep him out of radio's Hall of Fame, nor to keep such VIPs as Tom Brokaw, Chris Matthews, Tim Russert, John Kerry and John McCain off his show. So what's it mean that Imus finally is paying the piper, given that he has danced so long without paying a dime? What's it mean, all this sound and fury about one stupid remark, when he is an avatar of a school of ''entertainment'' that stretches far beyond him to video channels and bookstores and TV screens? In this school, coarseness is its own justification, rudeness its own reward. One pushes boundaries of propriety not to enlighten, not to say something vital, not even to make people laugh. One pushes the boundaries because they are there. And the willingness to do so gets mistaken for courage and authenticity. Don Imus ought to be ashamed of himself, but no more so than Kerry, Matthews, Brokaw, Biden and anybody else who lacked the wit to understand that the willingness to offend in and of itself represents neither courage nor authenticity. The question is, what are you offending for? If you are pushing boundaries, what are you pushing them toward? It is painfully clear that Imus was pushing toward nothing, unless you count the gratification of his own ego and misanthropy. What's sad isn't that he was willing to lead in that direction. What's sad is that so many of us were willing to follow. jf |
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| TomK | Apr 16 2007, 07:03 AM Post #66 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You can't get anymore PC than that little piece, Jack. Whew! :rolleyes: The only thing Imus did wrong was apologize. |
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| Copper | Apr 16 2007, 07:16 AM Post #67 |
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Shortstop
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What else can one think? Well one could think that this kind of behavior is no longer tolerated and the guys who do it get clobbered. Mr. Pitts final remark: "What's sad is that so many of us were willing to follow." is way off base. What's not sad is that so few were willing to tolerate this nonsense. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Dewey | Apr 16 2007, 07:25 AM Post #68 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Good articles. I especially liked this:
But I don't think I agree with this quote of Brokaw's, in the first article:
I don't think this is an issue of simple "civility," and in fact, I think that sometimes lapsing into incivility is entirely appropriate. I can be as incivil as hell to a person while not debasing their core person. I can consider someone a knobhead, and tell him such, without thinking that he's a knobhead (or worse) because of his skin color, ethnic origin, etc. Bigotry isn't the same thing as incivility. For that matter, it's very possible to be extremely civil with a person while simultaneously seething with hatred and bigotry against him. No, the problem isn't civility, or a lack of it, at all - and as the second author points out, it can become an easy vehicle for missing the real point. I also thought it ironic that the Imus and Duke issues came to a head at about the same time. I felt that it was a good illustration of the two sides of the same base issue of prejudice. Some whites automatically assumed the Duke students were innocent based on racial preference. Some blacks automatically assumed that the accuser was telling the truth based on their own racial preference. For my own part, my initial reaction was that the students were guilty - based not on race, but on another bias, that this situation brought out for my own examination - a prejudice against affluent white children of privilege. It didn't take me long to let that go, and to really look at the situation, but the fact is, that was my initial, knee-jerk reaction when the story broke, and it wasn't a presupposition I was very proud of. There's plenty of ugly bigotry to go around, whether based in race or other issues. It's found a comfortable home in the hearts of white and black, rich and poor, and all categories in between. That, and the idea that this is what we should be trying to un-learn - not that we just need to be more "civil" to each other - should be the real lesson in these two incidents. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Jack Frost | Apr 16 2007, 08:07 AM Post #69 |
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Bull-Carp
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Nicely put Dewey. jf |
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| apple | Apr 16 2007, 06:48 PM Post #70 |
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one of the angels
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http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110009946 |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| Larry | Apr 16 2007, 07:21 PM Post #71 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Well... that's because the two of you have so much in common.... |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Jack Frost | Apr 17 2007, 02:38 AM Post #72 |
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Bull-Carp
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Great piece. I hope the pressure stays on. jf |
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| TomK | Apr 17 2007, 04:59 AM Post #73 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well Quirt a couple of things. As far as plays goes--I'm glad you two are getting along. It's never nice when men hit women--and while it's good that you stopped--it's best you don't begin in the first place. As on the subject of you being "not the angriest man on the board." If you hare talking about me not calling Larry on the carpet, a couple of points. It's not kindergarten here, just because I object to your nastiness doesn't mean I have to do it to everyone else that's nasty. But most especially, I HAVE called Larry on the mentioned to Larry on numerous occasions over the years when I've thought he's gone over the line. "But then, I wouldn't expect you to notice. You lock yourself into preconceptions..." :rolleyes: So then why is it that I'm a hypocrite? I get into conversations with lots of people I disagree with around here. Very few turn into flame wars. You just can't stop. It's on thing to use TNCR as a vehicle for interesting discussion--but I think it's rather unfair to the other members on the board for you to use this Forum as your own personal Primal Scream therapy zone.
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| Mikhailoh | Apr 17 2007, 05:46 AM Post #74 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Is it possible that people are sick to death of walking on eggshells so as to not offend the delicate ears of another group? I know I am. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Daniel\ | Apr 17 2007, 05:56 AM Post #75 |
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Fulla-Carp
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What is it you want to say that you don't feel like you can say? You can call someone a "nappy headed ho" but you'll look like a low life and probably won't get invited to the governor's mansion. |
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12:38 AM Jul 13