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| After Imus, What's Next? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 13 2007, 09:55 AM (1,147 Views) | |
| Copper | Apr 13 2007, 05:38 PM Post #26 |
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Shortstop
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Do a Hillary Timbaland Google - it looks out to me. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Jack Frost | Apr 13 2007, 05:58 PM Post #27 |
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Bull-Carp
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George, Fox does not count. Nobody believes Fox. This need to be in the Times. This is huge if the moment is captured. This could knock her out right now! Go! jf |
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| CTPianotech | Apr 13 2007, 06:03 PM Post #28 |
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Fulla-Carp
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If it makes you feel any better, Rush fill-in today was talking about it. ![]() BTW, what record of facts being wrong (while other networks weren't) has led you to conclude that Fox is not to be believed?? Or were you saying, you would believe it, but don't think the general public would? |
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| Jack Frost | Apr 13 2007, 06:10 PM Post #29 |
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Bull-Carp
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I am glad Rush is onto this. I hope others with more credibility pick it up. Great story! jf |
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| JBryan | Apr 13 2007, 06:11 PM Post #30 |
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I am the grey one
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Hillary has a first class state room on the Barge. Nothing can touch her. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| TomK | Apr 13 2007, 06:12 PM Post #31 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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She's the MAN!!!
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| Jack Frost | Apr 13 2007, 06:15 PM Post #32 |
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Bull-Carp
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Do you really believe that? Are YOU on the BARGE or are you guessing? jf |
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| Larry | Apr 13 2007, 07:36 PM Post #33 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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I never cease to be amazed at just how blind and naive democrats can be. Jack, I told you if you made something up out of whole cloth again, I was going to call you on it. It is your *opinion* that Fox "doesn't count", and it is your *opinion* that "nobody believes Fox". But the fact is, you don't have a clue. You don't even own a TV. You *want* Fox to be insignificant, so therefore, they are, as far as you're concerned. The truth is Jack, that Fox is one of the most highly regarded news outlest in America. The news outlest that are losing viewership and readership are the very ones *you* think are the "credible" ones. CBS, NBC, and ABC are wallowing in the ditch, Jack. Want to know why? Their news reporting is slanted, Jack. The public can see it. And while you and the rest of the naive left sit around tossing rocks at Fox News, their viewer numbers just keep on growing. I almost feel sorry for you poor, sheltered little lily white liberals. Your cluelessness is almost painful to watch. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Larry | Apr 13 2007, 07:44 PM Post #34 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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There you go again, Jack. There is nothing wrong with Limbaugh's credibility. His listening audience is huge. Here's the shocker for you, Jack. If you took all the democrats and those who call themselves liberal in this country, let them listen to the things you and some of the other out of touch lefties say on these forums for a few days, then ask them to go across the street if they found your views to be ridiculous, once everyone stopped moving around there wouldn't be enough people left on your side of the street to sell hot dogs to. Just because you think your wild assed politics are "mainstream" only shows just how far out of touch with reality you really are. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| David Burton | Apr 13 2007, 09:17 PM Post #35 |
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Senior Carp
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I wrote down a few things and then decided to delete them after reading what everyone else has said as much of it is the same. As for Hillary. JBryan and TomK have it correct. She IS the man! She may have to get her own squads to protect her though as the Secret Service hates her guts! Maybe she’ll just fire them all. That’s the Clinton way after all and nobody in the yellow dog press would raise an eyelash. Hillary has more dirt on her than anyone can imagine, REAL dirt, that will never see the light of day. Why? She has friends, powerful friends, here and abroad. She’ll get the job and do as she’s told. Bill? Everyone still likes him no matter what. As for rap music. Where are ANY black leaders on this issue? Shame? There is no shame anymore. It’s passé. So it is not important if Hillary is involved in it or not. In fact it adds caché to her bid. (pardon the pun) I and those like me can continue to contend that nothing but the classics matters as music, with some leeway given to jazz, show tunes, etc. but that doesn’t matter either as there are far too few of us to count for anything. You can have the right opinion, or the correct observation of any given situation in life, but if all the world either doesn’t know, doesn’t care or disagrees, then your opinion doesn’t matter. I for one am not very keen on being the “voice crying in the wilderness.” To me it seems most prudent to try the best you can to find your own tribe. Techno-tribalism should get more attention than it does, especially among those who value that which has greater longevity, but no matter here. For another thread perhaps. HRC in ’08, come what may. If Obama gets the Democrat nomination, the GOP will win with anyone they choose. People will say one thing and go into the polls and vote for someone else. Why? It isn’t because Obama’s black, it isn’t because he’s not respected, it’s that right now, he’s not sufficiently “American” to be elected President. Sorry if the truth hurts, but it IS the truth. It was the same with Reagan the first time. A lot of people deliberately lied to pollsters back then too. By the way, I have heard more from Mitt Romney lately and usually like what I hear and how he expresses himself. But maybe he’s just the “stooge candidate” the Barge has in mind which is why they’re funding him so heavily behind the scenes. No, no, it will be Hillary no matter what she does or who she associates with. These days we have people who should be in prison making “culture” that sells and buying $30 million mansions, etc. Given that situation, she can and will get in. And I am NOT “on the Barge” just know of its machinations through people who have been watching the phenomenon of “guidance from above and behind the scenes” for a very long time. Some recently have told me that they are being kept out of the loop and that there are more death threats than usual to shut people up. So it goes. … be seeing you. |
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| George K | Apr 14 2007, 04:40 AM Post #36 |
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Finally
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Hillary's Inauguration Speech |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| QuirtEvans | Apr 15 2007, 07:02 AM Post #37 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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What a minute. What's with the "If Obama"? You told us that HRC was a genuine lock, that the Barge had already decided. So how is it possible that you can even acknowledge the possibility that Obama could beat her in the primaries? |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Apr 15 2007, 07:04 AM Post #38 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Even the ACLU needs a legal basis for a cause of action. And you still haven't given me a legal basis for a cause of action in Imus' situation. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Jack Frost | Apr 15 2007, 07:32 AM Post #39 |
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Bull-Carp
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NY Times April 15, 2007 Everybody Hates Don Imus By FRANK RICH FAMILIAR as I am with the warp speed of media, I was still taken aback by the velocity of Don Imus’s fall after he uttered an indefensible racist and sexist slur about the Rutgers women’s basketball team. Even in that short span, there’s been an astounding display of hypocrisy, sanctimony and self-congratulation from nearly every side of the debate, starting with Al Sharpton, who has yet to apologize for his leading role in the Tawana Brawley case, the 1980s racial melee prompted by unproven charges much like those that soiled the Duke lacrosse players. It’s possible that the only people in this whole sorry story who are not hypocrites are the Rutgers teammates and their coach, C. Vivian Stringer. And perhaps even Don Imus himself, who, while talking way too much about black people he has known and ill children he has helped, took full responsibility for his own catastrophic remarks and didn’t try to blame the ensuing media lynching on the press, bloggers or YouTube. Unlike Mel Gibson, Michael Richards and Isaiah Washington, to take just three entertainers who have recently delivered loud religious, racial or sexual slurs, Imus didn’t hire a P.R. crisis manager and ostentatiously enter rehab or undergo psychiatric counseling. “I dished it out for a long time,” he said on his show last week, “and now it’s my time to take it.” Among the hypocrites surrounding Imus, I’ll include myself. I’ve been a guest on his show many times since he first invited me in the early 1990s, when I was a theater critic. I’ve almost always considered him among the smarter and more authentic conversationalists I’ve encountered as an interviewee. As a book author, I could always use the publicity. Of course I was aware of many of his obnoxious comments about minority groups, including my own, Jews. Sometimes he aimed invective at me personally. I wasn’t seriously bothered by much of it, even when it was unfunny or made me wince, because I saw him as equally offensive to everyone. The show’s crudest interludes struck me as burlesque. I do not know Imus off the air and have no idea whether he is a good person, any more than I know whether Jerry Lewis, another entertainer who raises millions for sick children, is a good person. But as a listener and sometime guest, I didn’t judge Imus to be a bigot. Perhaps I felt this way in part because Imus vehemently inveighed against racism in real life, most recently in decrying the political ads in last year’s Senate campaign linking a black Tennessee congressman, Harold Ford, to white women. Perhaps I gave Imus a pass because the insults were almost always aimed at people in the public eye, whether politicians, celebrities or journalists — targets with the forums to defend themselves. And perhaps I was kidding myself. What Imus said about the Rutgers team landed differently, not least because his slur was aimed at young women who had no standing in the world of celebrity, and who had done nothing in public except behave as exemplary student athletes. The spectacle of a media star verbally assaulting them, and with a creepy, dismissive laugh, as if the whole thing were merely a disposable joke, was ugly. You couldn’t watch it without feeling that some kind of crime had been committed. That was true even before the world met his victims. So while I still don’t know whether Imus is a bigot, there was an inhuman contempt in the moment that sounded like hate to me. You can see it and hear it in the video clip in a way that isn’t conveyed by his words alone. Does that mean he should be silenced? The Rutgers team pointedly never asked for that, and I don’t think the punishment fits the crime. First, as a longtime Imus listener rather than someone who tuned in for the first time last week, I heard not only hate in his wisecrack but also honesty in his repeated vows to learn from it. Second, as a free-speech near-absolutist, I don’t believe that even Mel Gibson, to me an unambiguous anti-Semite, should be deprived of his right to say whatever the hell he wants to say. The answer to his free speech is more free speech — mine and yours. Let Bill O’Reilly talk about “wetbacks” or Rush Limbaugh accuse Michael J. Fox of exaggerating his Parkinson’s symptoms, and let the rest of us answer back. Liberals are kidding themselves if they think the Imus firing won’t have a potentially chilling effect on comics who push the line. Let’s not forget that Bill Maher, an Imus defender last week, was dropped by FedEx, Sears, ABC affiliates and eventually ABC itself after he broke the P.C. code of 9/11. Conservatives are kidding themselves if they think the Imus execution won’t impede Ann Coulter’s nasty invective on the public airwaves. As Al Franken pointed out to Larry King on Wednesday night, CNN harbors Glenn Beck, who has insinuated that the first Muslim congressman, Keith Ellison of Minnesota, is a terrorist (and who has also declared that “faggot” is nothing more than “a naughty name”). Will Time Warner and its advertisers be called to account? Already in the Imus aftermath, the born-again blogger Tom DeLay has called for the firing of Rosie O’Donnell because of her “hateful” views on Chinese-Americans, conservative Christians and President Bush. That said, corporations, whether television or radio networks or movie studios or commercial sponsors, are free to edit or cancel any content. No one has an inalienable right to be broadcast or published or given a movie or music contract. Whether MSNBC and CBS acted out of genuine principle or economic necessity is a debate already raging. Just as Imus’s show defied easy political definition — he has both kissed up to Dick Cheney as a guest and called him a war criminal — so does the chatter about what happened over the past week. MSNBC, forever unsure of its identity, seems to have found a new calling by turning that debate into a running series, and I say, go for it. The biggest cliché of the debate so far is the constant reiteration that this will be a moment for a national “conversation” about race and sex and culture. Do people really want to have this conversation, or just talk about having it? If they really want to, it means we have to ask ourselves why this debacle has given permission to talking heads on television to repeat Imus’s offensive words so insistently that cable news could hardly take time out to note the shocking bombing in the Baghdad Green Zone. Some even upped the ante: Donna Brazile managed to drag “jigaboo” into Wolf Blitzer’s sedate “Situation Room” on CNN. If we really want to have this conversation, it also means we have to have a nonposturing talk about hip-hop lyrics, “Borat,” “South Park” and maybe Larry David, too. As James Poniewozik pointed out in his smart cover article for Time last week, an important question emerged from an Imus on-air soliloquy as he tried to defend himself: “This phrase that I use, it originated in the black community. That didn’t give me a right to use it, but that’s where it originated. Who calls who that and why? We need to know that. I need to know that.” My 22-year-old son, a humor writer who finds Imus an anachronistic and unfunny throwback to the racial-insult humor of the Frank Sinatra-Sammy Davis Jr. Rat Pack ilk, raises a complementary issue. He argues that when Sacha Baron Cohen makes fun of Jews and gays, he can do so because he’s not doing it as himself but as a fictional character. But try telling that to the Anti-Defamation League, which criticized Mr. Baron Cohen, an observant Jew, for making sport of a real country (Kazakhstan) and worried that the “Borat” audience “may not always be sophisticated enough to get the joke, and that some may even find it reinforcing their bigotry.” So if we really want to have this national “conversation” about race and culture and all the rest of it that everyone keeps telling us that this incident has prompted, let’s get it on, no holds barred. And the fewer moralizing pundits and politicians, the better. Hillary Clinton, an Imus denouncer who has also called for federal regulation of violent television and video games, counts among her Hollywood fat cats Haim Saban, who made his fortune from “Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.” Listening to Les Moonves of CBS speak with such apparent sincerity of how his network was helping to change the culture by firing Imus, I couldn’t help but remember that one of CBS’s own cultural gifts to America has been “Big Brother,” the reality game show that cloisters a dozen or so strangers in a house for weeks to see how they get along. Maybe Mr. Moonves could put his prime-time schedule where his mouth is and stop milking that format merely for the fun of humiliation, voyeurism and sexual high jinks. If locking Imus and his team in a house with Coach Stringer and her team 24/7 isn’t must-see TV that moves this conversation forward, then I don’t know what is. jf |
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| Daniel\ | Apr 15 2007, 07:40 AM Post #40 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Never mind that it was the governor's house or that the governor was in critical condition after a wreck on the way to said meeting. It seems our culture becomes more inane and bankrupt all the time. ![]() |
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| Copper | Apr 15 2007, 09:34 AM Post #41 |
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Shortstop
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OK, keep going, you're almost up to my original question, good for you! |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| QuirtEvans | Apr 15 2007, 10:09 AM Post #42 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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There's no case to take up. As I keep trying to point out, and as you keep ducking. Your question is about as cogent as, "When did you stop beating your wife?" It contains a false assumption. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Copper | Apr 15 2007, 10:34 AM Post #43 |
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Shortstop
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So what? |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| QuirtEvans | Apr 15 2007, 10:58 AM Post #44 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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So what? If you have to ask "so what" about a question that contains a false assumption, then you really have no point at all. You're just engaging in mental masturbation. Feel free to enjoy yourself, but it's not productive for anyone else. You've stopped engaging in intelligent debate, and you've moved into the realm of haranguing. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Copper | Apr 15 2007, 11:20 AM Post #45 |
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Shortstop
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Oh Quirt, too bad, just when you were starting to get close to acting like a normal person you go flying back to being a lout. Why in the world would someone want to behave so badly? I asked a simple question. It's not a very important question and doesn't involve a great deal of thought. If nobody has an answer it doesn’t really matter. For some reason you couldn’t just ignore it. You have to turn into a flamethrower and jump up and down and spread your oafish behavior all over the thread. As far as the question is concerned it is actually one that has been asked over and over in many forums during the last week. The ACLU is noted for coming to the aid of unpopular causes. And as you now know they expanded way beyond first amendment cases a long time ago. So, the Imus case is right up their alley. Imus is certainly an unpopular case at the moment. Assuming that you might want to discontinue your oafish lout behavior, let me help you out. A better response might have been something like: “Ya, gee I wonder why the ACLU hasn’t come to his defense.” Come on try it out! |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| QuirtEvans | Apr 15 2007, 12:51 PM Post #46 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Sorry, but I have no choice but to treat idiots like idiots. Even you can do that math. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Copper | Apr 15 2007, 01:32 PM Post #47 |
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Shortstop
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I'm not sure what that might have to do with math, but if you keep trying I'm sure you can improve your behavior. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| QuirtEvans | Apr 15 2007, 02:19 PM Post #48 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Apparently, I overestimated you. Ah well, live and learn. I guess I really can't expect much from someone who can't figure out what is wrong with a question that has a built-in flawed assumption. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| TomK | Apr 15 2007, 02:22 PM Post #49 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Not exactly a FLAME WAR. More like a back burner war. Geeze |
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| Copper | Apr 15 2007, 02:32 PM Post #50 |
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Shortstop
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Well I think Quirt is basically a good boy, he just has limited means for expressing himself. And sometimes he has limited vision and he gets frustrated by it. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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12:38 AM Jul 13