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| DoJ Official To Take the Fifth | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 26 2007, 05:58 PM (940 Views) | |
| QuirtEvans | Mar 26 2007, 05:58 PM Post #1 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/26/fir...neys/index.html And yes, folks, in the court of public opinion (and in civil trials), you *are* allowed to draw an adverse inference from the assertion of the Fifth Amendment. The public can and will conclude that she has something to hide. Her BS about not wanting to testify because Congress has already reached a conclusion that criminal activity occurred is self-serving and implausible ... who says that she's the one who committed whatever criminal acts occurred? Personally, I hope they give her immunity and force her to talk. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| George K | Mar 26 2007, 06:02 PM Post #2 |
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Finally
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Two Words: Scooter Libby |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| JBryan | Mar 26 2007, 06:02 PM Post #3 |
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I am the grey one
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Me too. Then we might get closer to the facts about the crime. What crime I don't know but I'm sure our indefatigable members of Congress will come up with one. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 26 2007, 06:04 PM Post #4 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Seven little words, three separate crimes. Perjury. Obstruction of justice. Lying to Congress. Whether the crimes occurred is still open to question. Claiming "What crime I don't know" is childish and silly. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| George K | Mar 26 2007, 06:04 PM Post #5 |
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Finally
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Perjury, JB. That's the crime. Gonzales said one thing and records show something else. That's something that can't be allowed in front of Congress. [size=1]unless you're a pretty wife of a former ambassador[/size] |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| JBryan | Mar 26 2007, 06:10 PM Post #6 |
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I am the grey one
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Ah, yes. "Childish and silly". Once again you lash out when your argument becomes threadbare and, should I say it, silly. If Kyle Sampson lied to Congress, if Alberto Gonzales lied to Congress then let the case be made on the weight of their testimony. This other minor official can shed little light on what is already known about that. Of course, fishing occurs underwater and requires little if any light. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Kincaid | Mar 27 2007, 07:20 AM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I haven't really followed this thing closely at all, so I am not sure exactly what the are the known facts. However, what little I have heard indicates Gonzalez would not have to go so far as to claim it depends on what the definition of "is", is. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Jack Frost | Mar 27 2007, 07:30 AM Post #8 |
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Bull-Carp
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She is not allowed to take the Fifth to avoid incriminating Gonzales. I think her plea is just a ruse to avoid having to spill the beans. As White House liason, she skows EVERYTHING. Taking the fifth is clearly grounds for her dismissal. Gonzales is a goner. jf |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 27 2007, 08:06 AM Post #9 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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JB, don't be idiotic. It really is unbecoming. You're the one who said "What crime I don't know". It's very easy to imagine the crimes. I gave you the list. It's seven words. Perjury. Obstruction of justice. Lying to Congress. See? Now you know what the potential crimes are. If you were being candid that you didn't know what the potential crimes are, now you know. I find it hard to believe that you are that naive and clueless, but, just in case, now you know. And if you weren't being candid, you were being childish and silly. Your choice. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| JBryan | Mar 27 2007, 08:15 AM Post #10 |
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I am the grey one
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From the very beginning this has been a fishing expedition in the hunt for a crime underlying the firing of these attorneys. A process crime unrelated to such a crime does not get us any nearer to a determination that such a crime was committed. We all have a pretty good indication as to why Gonzales and others said what they said and it has nothing to do with covering anything up. There is certainly nothing in any of the documents or emails examined that reveals anything of the sort. When I say "what crime?" I am clearly referring to one underlying the firing of these attorneys. To point out this process crime that was a result more of stupidity than anything else is what I would call childish and silly. No one on either committee has even suggested any wrong-doing in the actual firing of these attorneys. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Larry | Mar 27 2007, 08:21 AM Post #11 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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So you're saying that excersizing her Constitutional rights is "clearly grounds for her dismissal"? It's an ugly thing when ideology replaces rational thought.. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 27 2007, 08:23 AM Post #12 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Three words ... obstruction of justice. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Larry | Mar 27 2007, 08:24 AM Post #13 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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The whole thing is a manufactured scandal by the democrats who are more interested in harming Bush than they are in protecting the nation. I've read some on why these attorneys were fired, and I agree they should have been fired. Bush had the legal right to fire them, and that's the end of the story. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Larry | Mar 27 2007, 08:26 AM Post #14 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Someone has to be pursuing justice in order for someone else to obstruct it. Political witch hunts aren't a pursuit of justice. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 27 2007, 08:31 AM Post #15 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Do I really have to agree with Larry? It's really quite distasteful. But I do. In a government job, you cannot fire someone for taking the Fifth. The most you can do is scorn them. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 28 2007, 05:22 PM Post #16 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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According to her lawyer, here's why Monica Goodling is taking the Fifth:
In other words, someone in DoJ is calling her a liar. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| JBryan | Mar 28 2007, 05:31 PM Post #17 |
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I am the grey one
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Or the difference in the two stories, no matter whether either is lying or just don't remember it the same, might result in a perjury charge. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 29 2007, 02:03 AM Post #18 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Please correct me if I am wrong, but can Congress prosecute anything? If Congress identifies a crime that has been committed, don't they refer it to ... the Department of Justice? And isn't the DoJ ultimately responsible for deciding whether to prosecute or not? So, the fear is that the Bush DoJ will be too cowardly to stand up to Congress if Congress asserts that perjury has been committed. Our little friend has to make several assumptions in her assertion of the Fifth: (1) someone else at DoJ is telling a story blatantly inconsistent with hers (and why would THAT be?); (2) Congress will believe them, and not her; (3) Congress will assert that that inconsistency amounts to perjury, and refer it to DoJ for prosecution; and (4) DoJ will be too cowardly to reach its own conclusions about whether the differences in testimony amount to perjury. Or, perhaps she really is lying, and would be guilty of perjury? I wonder what Occam's Razor would say ..... |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| JBryan | Mar 29 2007, 04:12 AM Post #19 |
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I am the grey one
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Occam's razor is telling me you are injecting a hell of a lot of fluff to build up your case. If she has reason to believe that someone else told a different story than she could honestly tell then she has every reason to be concerned about perjury charges as any good attorney would tell her. I'm sure that is just what hers did. To say she might be lying is silly because she hasn't said anything yet. If she tells the truth and it is the same as what anyone else said she has no problem. If she gives gives inconsistent testimony then she either lied knowing her version of events would be inconsistent or told the truth knowing her version of events would be inconsistent. Occam's razor would tell me the latter is more likely unless she (or her attorney) is mighty stupid. the fact that she refuses to testify would lead me to believe otherwise. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Daniel\ | Mar 29 2007, 04:18 AM Post #20 |
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Fulla-Carp
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This is the most important thing to investigate? |
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| TomK | Mar 29 2007, 04:57 AM Post #21 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Evertime I scan by the title of this thread it always looks like "Dol to take the Fifth."
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 29 2007, 06:42 AM Post #22 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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So, I guess you agree that Occam's Razor suggests that she is telling a very different story from someone else ... and that that story is different enough that it could give rise to a charge of perjury. Because, again, unless her story is different, she has nothing to fear ... particularly since the DoJ, HER VERY OWN EMPLOYER, would have to make the decision to prosecute. So I guess that we know that different people have very different stories to tell .... Again, here's hoping she gets immunity. She's a bit player, let her tell her story and let's see if there's anything there or not. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Jack Frost | Mar 29 2007, 07:10 AM Post #23 |
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Bull-Carp
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What else is new? Bush and Rove never played political hardball? Dan Burton never went on Clinton fishing expeditions? I find the partisan blindness on this stuff astonishing. Does anybody see the big picture here besides me and Obama? jf |
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| JBryan | Mar 29 2007, 08:05 AM Post #24 |
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I am the grey one
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I believe it has been established (or at least rumored) that she has a different story to tell than someone else. Whether it is different memories of the same event or deliberate falsehoods on the part of one or the other we do not know. Certainly, you can see the abundance of caution on the part of her attorney after the Scooter Libby thing. I hope they do immunize her so we can get to the bottom of this as much as I think this whole tempest in a teapot has been an enormous waste of time and taxpayer resources. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| QuirtEvans | Mar 29 2007, 08:13 AM Post #25 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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On this, we agree. Let's have her (and everyone else) tell their stories, let's get all the documents. If there's wrongdoing, let's bring it to light; otherwise, let's move on. Too bad the Pres is in the position of obstructing the completion of the investigation by refusing to allow a transcript of the Rove/Miers interviews. Side note: here's an interesting question. Rove still works at the White House, but Miers does not. Can El Presidente block Miers from testifying in public, if she chooses to do so? I don't think so, but I'm not certain. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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