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To those of you having a laugh at Conservapedia
Topic Started: Feb 25 2007, 10:13 PM (1,847 Views)
Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
It's a bunch of high school kids.

An atheist is trashing it.

Regardless of how ignorant and naive they may be on some things, some things are correct.

Anyone can put anything on the internet. PianoWorld is on the internet too - now there's something that deserves to be made fun of.

I am sure that if a bunch of atheist high school kids put up a Liberalpedia website and a Christian came along and trashed it, all you grown up liberals and atheists would be up in arms over it.

It's a bunch of kids. They're learning. They're supposed to be a little ignorant and naive. What's your excuse?

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Since "Wiki" is something that anyone willing to put in the time/effort can edit and make right, perhaps some of the true grown up conservatives can go in and make Conservapedia a truly correct and representative encyclopaedia of conservative thoughts?

Just a suggestion.
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Daniel\
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Fulla-Carp
I'm not really interested in a partisan encyclopedia. So first off- I think it's an unusual idea. Second, if people are going to put stuff up on the Internet- they are old enough to take care of editing it.

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Axtremus
Feb 25 2007, 11:28 PM
Since "Wiki" is something that anyone willing to put in the time/effort can edit and make right, perhaps some of the true grown up conservatives can go in and make Conservapedia a truly correct and representative encyclopaedia of conservative thoughts?

Just a suggestion.

You are always so helpful, Ax. :rolleyes:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Optimistic
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HOLY CARP!!!
If a similar school project by high school liberals were claiming such things about itself:
Quote:
 
Conservapedia is rapidly becoming one of the largest and most reliable online educational resources of its kind.
I'd find it equally absurd.
PHOTOS

I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week, sometimes, to make it up.
- Mark Twain


We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
-T. S. Eliot
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jon-nyc
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Its certainly true that some liberal highschool students could have taken on some public project that would have made them look silly. Perhaps you guys would make fun of it, and perhaps that might make some of us adults defensive.

But not a project like this.

You see, there is a fundamental difference in mindset between a liberal (and im using that in its classical sense) and a religious fundamentalist.

Liberals would never feel the need to set up a wall to keep out science that conflicted with their ideology. Liberals (again i'm using this in its classical sense - many of the conservatives on this board would qualify[1]) would never construct an absurd set of 'scientific' theories so as not to contradict some text written by ancient and ignorant pastoral tribemen.


That's why this is particularly laughable. And its also why its making a few of you particularly defensive. Because we're not just making fun of naive kids, we're making fun of a silly ideology and a bunker mentality that is shared by a number of adults on this forum.


By the way the Communists and the Nazis did this too - obviously not an internet encyclopedia, but each required science to conform to their ideology and, like the Christian fundamentalists, they started their own journals and their own "schools of thought" when real science didn't conform. We can only hope that religious fundamentalism joins those other two dangerous ideologies in the dustbin of history.



[1] But not you, Larry. :)
Liszt Godowsky jon-nyc Rachmaninoff Hamelin
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dolmansaxlil
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HOLY CARP!!!
As I said in another thread - if in their info section they said it was a highschool project and left it at that, I'd think it was an excellent idea (though I'd still take issue with how inaccurate many of their entries are). It's their claim that they're fast becoming a rival to Wiki that makes it entertaining.
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

My Flickr Photostream


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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Quote:
 
You see, there is a fundamental difference in mindset between a liberal (and im using that in its classical sense) and a religious fundamentalist.


This is mostly why I have not felt a need to respond to any of this misrepresentation of conservatism nor have I felt a need to be "defensive" about it. It would be no different than if I had posted this as represerntative of the liberal mindset.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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jon-nyc
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A good call on your part, and I would have figured as much.


The only problem is that, today in this country, there is a real struggle between liberal conservatives (again, in the classical sense) and the illiberal sort. So while these guys are misrepresenting conservatism in theory, in political fact they are its representation, at least to a large degree.


In this country I don't think the left has had that issue (a real struggle with illiberal ideology) since the 60s, if not the 30s.
Liszt Godowsky jon-nyc Rachmaninoff Hamelin
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I'm not laughing at conservapedia because it's conservative. It's not really conservative at all, it's almost a parody of conservatism. It reminds me slightly of that most wonderful book '1066 and All That' by Sellars and Yeatman, which parodies English-taught school history as narrated by schoolboys. The only difference between this and that book is that conservapedia is unintentionally funny. I'm laughing at conservapedia because it's very funny. Ignorance doesn't usually wave quite sucg a big red flag.

For the record, I find many so-called liberals almost as funny as the conservatives.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
jon-nyc
Feb 26 2007, 07:39 AM
So while these guys are misrepresenting conservatism in theory, in political fact they are its representation, at least to a large degree.

On this we will have to be in disagreement. Certainly, there are those (mostly bliberals) who are flogging the fundamantalist bogeyman. However, you will find few successful national conservative politicians who pander to this element in more than a salutory manner. I certainly have not seen even lip service paid to ending the teaching of evolution, for instance, among conservative politicians.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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jon-nyc
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Its a question of degree. The phrase I used "in political fact they are its representation" was too strong, even with the caveat behind it.

But I do think the battle is real. And to a degree not seen on the left for generations.
Liszt Godowsky jon-nyc Rachmaninoff Hamelin
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jon-nyc
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I'll add that the battle between liberal and illiberal conservatives that we see today is probably worse than the one the left saw in the last century. ('worse' in the sense that the illiberal forces are stronger this time around).


I agree that most successful national politicians only pander to them, and that 'one of them' - like a Brownback - couldn't win a national election today. But still, he could do well in a number of primaries. And he will be taken seriously by the whole lot of them.

Compare that to the left - no one took Gus Hall seriously or felt the need to pander to his constituents. Even in the pre-Soviet era, Eugene Debs was imprisoned as many times as he ran for office. And I don't think he ever got more than 5% of the vote.
Liszt Godowsky jon-nyc Rachmaninoff Hamelin
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
When high school students pretend to be grown-ups and make fools of themselves, I laugh.

If they are conservatives, I laugh.

If they are football players and cheerleaders, I laugh.

If they are vegan PETA-lovers, I laugh.

Conservipedia is hysterically, if unintentionally, funny.

And if you don't think there's an attack on evolution going on among political forces, welcome to Kansas. Or listen to the Decider telling people to "teach the controversy!"
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Do you really believe that ending the teaching of the theory of evolution is an element of mainstream conservatism? Or is it on the fringe, much like the banning of automobiles on the left.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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jon-nyc
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Quote:
 
Do you really believe that ending the teaching of the theory of evolution is an element of mainstream conservatism?


No.

But I think the number of Americans who believe in creationism (even 'young earth' creationism) is many many many times the number who wish to ban automobiles.

The fact that their push is not to ban the teaching of evolution, but to get creationism taught next to it, is purely a quesiton of tactics.
Liszt Godowsky jon-nyc Rachmaninoff Hamelin
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LadyElton
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I hate to say it, but I agree with Larry. :hide: It is just like any other online encyclopedia. It is put together but submissions off the Internet. Wiki is that same way. People submit facts and articles. They do try to verify the sources and stuff, but it doesn't always work. Things get on there that are incorrect and possibly biased. We need to take these online encyclopedias with a pinch of salt and not use them like they are the end all to online reference sites.
Hilary aka LadyElton
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jon-nyc
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JB: If Sam Harris is to be believed, its a majority:


"Despite a full century of scientific insights attesting to the antiquity of life and the greater antiquity of the Earth, more than half the American population believes that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago. This is, incidentally, about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue. Those with the power to elect presidents and congressmen—and many who themselves get elected—believe that dinosaurs lived two by two upon Noah's Ark, that light from distant galaxies was created en route to the Earth and that the first members of our species were fashioned out of dirt and divine breath, in a garden with a talking snake, by the hand of an invisible God."
Liszt Godowsky jon-nyc Rachmaninoff Hamelin
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
Liberals would never feel the need to set up a wall to keep out science that conflicted with their ideology.

Global Warming.

Quote:
 
Liberals (again i'm using this in its classical sense - many of the conservatives on this board would qualify[1]) would never construct an absurd set of 'scientific' theories so as not to contradict some text written by ancient and ignorant pastoral tribemen.


1. You don't have a clue what classic liberalism is.
2. Are you saying that liberals don't believe in God? Or are you putting your own sad, Godless viewpoint onto all liberals?

Quote:
 
That's why this is particularly laughable. And its also why its making a few of you particularly defensive. Because we're not just making fun of naive kids, we're making fun of a silly ideology and a bunker mentality that is shared by a number of adults on this forum.


I'm not defensive - I was simply trying to keep you from embarassing yourself. As it turns out, you did it anyway, but don't even realize it. You're so convinced that believe in a higher power is silly, you have exposed a large part of why modern liberalism is a mental disorder, and why it is destroying our nation.

The "silly ideology" is your own. You think it takes a fool to believe in God - I think it takes a fool *not* to see that a higher power exists. You think science is on your side - I think science isn't an issue. You use the word "fundamentalism" just like every other godless liberal fool who has no clue about what Christians believe, or what "fundamentalism" means.

Quote:
 
By the way the Communists and the Nazis did this too - obviously not an internet encyclopedia, but each required science to conform to their ideology and, like the Christian fundamentalists, they started their own journals and their own "schools of thought" when real science didn't conform. We can only hope that religious fundamentalism joins those other two dangerous ideologies in the dustbin of history.


Oh, you *didn't* go there!.....

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! The same thing can be said about modern liberalism. Your sick, warped, godless ideology has infected our public schools, and anyone who doesn't go along with your "school of thought" is demonized. Science is *constantly* being forced to conform to your views, and any attempt to teach, study, or learn about anything that conflicts with your views is demonized. *YOUR* sick, pathetic ideology is the one that has done more damage to this country than anything we have ever faced as a nation, and continues to do so - so we can only hope that modern liberalism and all that it stands for lands on the dust heap of history - if it doesn't, history might just be all we have.

Your post exposes the bigotted, hate filled ignorance of the left. Thank you - you did more to make my case for the disease of modern liberalism that I could have done if I'd written a book.


Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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jon-nyc
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Gallop consistently (over 20+ years) gets numbers in the mid-40s when asking the question this way:

Quote:
 
Which of the following statements comes closest to your views on the origin and development of human beings -- [ROTATE 1-3/3-1: 1) Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process, 2) Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God had no part in this process, 3) God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so]?



However, when they change the question to reference the bible, support goes up to 53% (from September 2005):

Quote:
 
Which of the following statements comes closest to your views on the origin and development of human beings – [ROTATED: human beings have evolved over millions of years from other forms of life and God guided this process, human beings have evolved over millions of years from other forms of life, but God had no part in this process, or God created human beings in their present form exactly the way the Bible describes it]?



Either way we're talking roughly half of Americans.


There's no way you'll see that number wanting to ban cars.
Liszt Godowsky jon-nyc Rachmaninoff Hamelin
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jon-nyc
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Larry
Feb 26 2007, 09:52 AM
Quote:
 
Liberals would never feel the need to set up a wall to keep out science that conflicted with their ideology.


Global Warming.


I think the environmentalist movement contains an sizable current of illiberal ideology.



There's not much else in your post worth responding to. You lack either the mips or the fact base, or both, to discuss this topic rationally. Thats when the invective starts flying.
Liszt Godowsky jon-nyc Rachmaninoff Hamelin
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
It's not invective. It's fact. You are simply a product of the disease your ideology has become. It is your religion. You point to "fundamentalists" and accuse them of being ignorant, when it is you who is wallowing in ignorance, bigotry, and hate.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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jon-nyc
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quod erat demonstrandum
Liszt Godowsky jon-nyc Rachmaninoff Hamelin
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
jon-nyc
Feb 26 2007, 08:11 AM
quod erat demonstrandum

Our own liberal version of Wm F Buckley... :biggrin:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Copper
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Larry
Feb 26 2007, 10:10 AM
your ideology has become. It is your religion.


I think that is true.

There is no longer much need to read these religious posts from either side.

The bible according to the liberal kooks is as well known as the bible according to the conservative kooks.



The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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