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Kudos to GM; Sweeps honors
Topic Started: Jan 7 2007, 06:10 PM (303 Views)
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
I'm impressed.
GM's new Aura even beat out the newly designed Camry and Honda Fit.
That's some serious competition.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/AUTOS/01/07/car_tr...year/index.html

GM sweeps honors at auto show
At Detroit auto show Saturn Aura tapped as car of year, while Chevy Silverado takes truck of year award; first time GM has swept awards

DETROIT (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors kicked off the North American International Auto Show by sweeping the show's car and truck of the year awards for the first time in the company's history.

The Saturn Aura won the show's car of the year award, while the Chevrolet Silverado won the truck of the year. The panel of judges chooses among models that were introduced or susbstantially redesigned in the current model year.

"The Aura is an important step in our ongoing product revitalization plan, and this award is proof that our efforts are paying off," said a statement from Jill Lajdziak, general manager for Saturn.

While Honda Motor swept last year's award when the Civic sedan and Ridgeline pickup won the two awards, GM had never taken both honors in the same year.

The Aura's win was the first time GM had won car of the year since the Corvette won in 1998. And to win the award, it had to beat out the redesigned Toyota Camry, the nation's best-selling car model, which had just won the car of the year honors from Motor Trend, as well as the Honda Fit, the subcompact car introduced to the U.S. market

Karl Brauer, editor-in-chief of Edmunds.com and one of 49 jurors voting for the award, said that Saturn could see a bigger lift from the honor than Silverado, since Silverado was already well established with large pickup buyers, while the award could get sedan buyers to take a new look at Saturn.

"It's an undeniable statement about where Saturn has gotten," he said. "You could say its long overdue, but they are now producing a competitive vehicle in a very competitive class."

Brauer had voted for the Fit, which he said was more of a breakthrough vehicle in the class of vehicle - the fuel-efficient sub-compact - that became far more important in the last year in the face of record high fuel prices.

The Silverado did not face competition in this vote from the Tundra, the first full-size pickup from Toyota that came out too late to be considered by the judges. Brauer said he has since driven the Tundra and if he had been able to include that in his consideration, he would have split his vote and given the Tundra a slight edge.

But he said there are a number of factors, including the truck's interiors, in which he would still give the Silverado the edge.

"I think it would have been a very close vote," he said.

The Silverado's win was a setback for Ford Motor, which had two finalists for truck of the year in the Ford Edge and the Mazda CX-7. (Ford owns a controlling interest in Mazda and the CX-7 and Edge share some components.)

"For Chrysler and Ford, their most danergous factor is the reemergence of GM," said David Cole, the chairman of the Center for Automotive Research. "After GM's near brush with death, they got their act together and become a more formible force. That's more dangerous for the other domestics than the international automakers."

Brauer said he believes that the Ford Edge was hurt with some of the truck voters by the fact that it is a crossover vehicle, a more car-like SUV that is still considered a light truck in the industry's classification.

"I've talked to enough jurors to know that plays a role," he said. "A crossover being in the truck of the year category is an automatic disadvantage. But for some people, myself included, felt the Edge still wasn't a cutting edge vehicle, for lack of a better word. It's a well-executed crossover, just like a bunch of other well-executed crossovers."

Motor Trend and Edmunds.com are participants in CNNMoney.com's All-star Car Show
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
That is good.. because every Saturn I have ever driven was a major POS. Uncomfortable, rough ride, ran like a coffee grinder, poor fit and finish. Body panels are a cool idea, but that's it.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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George K
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Finally
The Volt, by GM.

GM looks to electric car to spark revival

Andrew Clark in Detroit
Monday January 8, 2007
The Guardian

The world's biggest carmaker, General Motors, has come up with an electric idea to spark its flagging fortunes: a mass-market battery-powered car called the Volt, which it believes could finally tempt motorists away from the internal combustion engine.
Although the car is still at a conceptual stage, GM said the Volt would contain a plug-in battery capable of powering it for 40 miles. Unlike previous attempts at electric cars, it will also have an electric generator on board able to produce more energy when the battery runs low.

Speaking at the North American International Auto Show, GM's vice-chairman for product development, Bob Lutz, said the project was "fundamentally, ground-breakingly new" and had the highest importance for the struggling US company.
"This is a different technology. This is not just another hybrid - it's a vehicle which breaks with tradition and it's something entirely new," he said.

American carmakers have been pilloried in the past for failing to invest in electric technology. A documentary released last year, Who Killed the Electric Car?, suggested GM had wilfully turned its back on environmentally friendly technology.

But rocketing petrol prices have prompted a new desire for cheaper fuel among American carbuyers, who have deserted gas-guzzling sports utility vehicles in droves.

At this year's motor show in America's car capital of Detroit, activity is centred around showcasing small cars - traditionally shunned by American buyers - and on hybrid energy technology.

GM said the Volt's electric generator could be powered either by traditional petrol or by a hydrogen fuel cell. But either way, the vehicle would always be propelled by an electric motor. A motorist using the vehicle could save up to £500 a year in petrol and avoid emitting 4.4 tonnes of carbon dioxide a year.

The generator technology, named the E-Flex System, is intended to be suitable to go on scores of other models.

But there was scepticism at just how easy it will be to implement. GM suggested that it was at best two or three years away from the market. Some experts wondered whether that was too optimistic.

Walter McManus, director of automotive analysis at the University of Michigan, said at this stage it was tantamount to a "magic" car: "They didn't tell you when this E-Flex was going to be ready. The battery technology they're dependent on is not ready yet. It's a physics issue and just pouring money into it isn't going to solve it."

America's big three carmakers - GM, Ford and Chrysler - are expected to lose well over $10bn (£5.2bn) in 2006. Their share of the US market has fallen from 73% to 57% in a decade and Japan's Toyota is about to overtake GM to become the global leader.

Dr McManus said the root cause of their difficulties was plain: between 1920 and 2002, petrol prices fell by 1.4 cents a year. But in each of the past five years, prices at the pump have jumped by more than 10%.

Ford set out its stall to challenge Japan's dominance in smaller vehicles with a plethora of newly designed cars including a Ford Focus with a streamlined body and its weight reduced by 27kg (60lb).

In a tie-up with Microsoft, Ford hopes to tempt buyers with a hands-free system called the Sync, which allows drivers to operate their phones or iPods using voice commands by talking into a dashboard device.

One Ford prototype model featured a front passenger seat that swivels to face the rear, a 360-degree cinema-style surround screen and an onboard lava lamp.

Ford's chairman, Bill Ford, said 2007 would be crucial to the company, which is slashing 45,000 jobs.

Mr Ford said: "We've had some challenging times lately but my optimism for Ford is unwavering; 2006 was a difficult year for us - 2007 will be a pivotal one."

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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

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- Klaus, 4/29/18
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Id love to see them turn around. Or at least stop the bleeding.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
An onboard lava lamp? :excited:

That's it, I'm junking my Civic!
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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

The Volt - I read the article this morning and thought that someone finally has the right idea with hybrids. DC electric motors are much better than gasoline engines - they don't have the torque/hp curve problems, so performance is likely to better than that of a gas engine (plus no transmission). Then add a gas engine, but run it at a constant rpm at it's sweet spot to get the highest efficiency, and use it to top up the batteries. Can't wait until they put this in a half ton truck. :thumb:

Here's a thought - a dc motor on each wheel and get rid of all that rack and pinion stuff (save some weight too). Just adjust the rpms on each wheel and the vehicle would turn without actually moving the position of the front wheels! In theory you could probably rotate the vehicle on the spot.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
IF you plug it in you can't claim any particular MPG.

You are using something other than gallons of gas to move the car.

You are using electricity.

Where does electricity come from?

What fuel was burned.

How much emissions?
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CTPianotech
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Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
Unlike previous attempts at electric cars, it will also have an electric generator on board able to produce more energy when the battery runs low.


But then if it can produce its own energy, why the heck can it only go for 40 miles??

What the hell use is something that can only go 40 miles at a pop anyhow??
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George K
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Finally
kenny
Jan 7 2007, 08:41 PM
You are using electricity.

Where does electricity come from?

What fuel was burned.

How much emissions?

Aha!

Kenny, the light bulb goes off!

You're asking the right question. It's not about MPG. It's about the "energy footprint" that the car has. I'm sure someone knows more than I, but that footprint for hybrids is not all that much smaller than regular internal combustion engines.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Jan 7 2007, 06:52 PM
kenny
Jan 7 2007, 08:41 PM
You are using electricity.

Where does electricity come from?

What fuel was burned.

How much emissions?

Aha!

Kenny, the light bulb goes off!

You're asking the right question. It's not about MPG. It's about the "energy footprint" that the car has. I'm sure someone knows more than I, but that footprint for hybrids is not all that much smaller than regular internal combustion engines.

There are lots of folks offering lots of "answers" to this key question based on lots of interests.

Exxon has a lot of money.
I'll bet they have 'scientists" and "journalists" on the payroll.

I personally believe it is impossible to know the truth.
Too much money at stake.

So buy a Hummer.
Or buy a hybrid.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Why are the new cars so friggin ugly???

___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Mark
Jan 7 2007, 07:06 PM
Why are the new cars so friggin ugly???

Their customers?
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
kenny
Jan 7 2007, 07:41 PM
IF you plug it in you can't claim any particular MPG.

You are using something other than gallons of gas to move the car.

You are using electricity.

Where does electricity come from?

What fuel was burned.

How much emissions?

If the electricity was generated from hydro, (likely in many areas) wind, solar, or geothermal (less likely but available in some areas), then the energy footprint of a plug-in electric car is effectively 0.

Ditto nuclear sources as used in some parts of the US and throught Europe, although the disposal of the waste is problematic.
Wag more
Bark less
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
George K
Jan 7 2007, 07:24 PM
In a tie-up with Microsoft, Ford hopes to tempt buyers with a hands-free system called the Sync, which allows drivers to operate their phones or iPods using voice commands by talking into a dashboard device.


Terrific.

I want a car that lasts forever and instead they're working on a car that I can talk to.

They still don't get it. Maybe they never will.
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Daniel\
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Mikhailoh
Jan 7 2007, 06:18 PM
POS.  Uncomfortable, rough ride, ran like a coffee grinder, poor fit and finish. 

GM and Ford products have this feel to me and it's been this way for many years now. I don't think they know anymore how to build quality. I think they literally don't know. I'm done with them.

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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Daniel
Jan 7 2007, 08:54 PM
Mikhailoh
Jan 7 2007, 06:18 PM
POS.  Uncomfortable, rough ride, ran like a coffee grinder, poor fit and finish. 

GM and Ford products have this feel to me and it's been this way for many years now. I don't think they know anymore how to build quality. I think they literally don't know. I'm done with them.

Whenever I rent a car the first words out of my mouth are, "Do you have any Japanese cars?"
And I don't whisper it either.
I always ask if I'm the only one to ask this.
They invariable say, "Oh no, lots of people ask for Japanese cars."

Maybe I'll ask for an Aura next time.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
Jan 7 2007, 10:25 PM
Id love to see them turn around. Or at least stop the bleeding.

Hmm... I vaguely recall you posted, way back, something about GM needing to renegotiate some big union contract in 2007, and it could be "make or break" for it. My apology if my recollection is faulty... but just in case it isn't, any new insight on that?
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ny1911
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Senior Carp
1hp
Jan 7 2007, 06:35 PM
The Volt - I read the article this morning and thought that someone finally has the right idea with hybrids. DC electric motors are much better than gasoline engines - they don't have the torque/hp curve problems, so performance is likely to better than that of a gas engine (plus no transmission). Then add a gas engine, but run it at a constant rpm at it's sweet spot to get the highest efficiency, and use it to top up the batteries. Can't wait until they put this in a half ton truck. :thumb:

Here's a thought - a dc motor on each wheel and get rid of all that rack and pinion stuff (save some weight too). Just adjust the rpms on each wheel and the vehicle would turn without actually moving the position of the front wheels! In theory you could probably rotate the vehicle on the spot.

There are cars with wheel motors (or there have been in the past). The problem is that unsprung weight is bad handling characteristics, and if the mass spins, you lose a lot of mpg in the acceleration of the rotating inertia.

I hope they are using brushless dc motors (which are really permanent magnet ac machines). Traditional dc motors are inefficient and not as reliable as brushless motors.

In a separate article, I saw that it was rated for 40 miles per charge, based on the average annual mileage of 15,000/year. In my experience, I would say that I do most of my driving on the 235 work days in a year. That's closer to 64 miles per day for me.
So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.
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ny1911
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Senior Carp
Daniel
Jan 7 2007, 08:54 PM
Mikhailoh
Jan 7 2007, 06:18 PM
POS.  Uncomfortable, rough ride, ran like a coffee grinder, poor fit and finish. 

GM and Ford products have this feel to me and it's been this way for many years now. I don't think they know anymore how to build quality. I think they literally don't know. I'm done with them.

Their problem there is that in the 70's and 80's, when there was a demand for economy cars, they thought it acceptable to make a small, inexpensive car that was f low quality - that would be OK with the customer. After all, who would expect a $4000 car to last 10 years? All of the engines and transmissions were junk.

But Japan and Europe (VW) made small cars that were to the same quality standards as their larger cars.

My parents drive Ford crown vics. THey never have problems with them and they last a long time. So Ford can build a reliable and durable vehicle, it just can't do it and get 38mpg.

So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.
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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

Quote:
 
But then if it can produce its own energy, why the heck can it only go for 40 miles??

What the hell use is something that can only go 40 miles at a pop anyhow??



The vehicle can go 40 miles on a full battery charge - ie no internal combustion engine reqd. The point of this is that the power grids are movig more and more into the green area, and maybe nuclear.

According to GM news release, using E85 fule (85% ethanol 15% gasoline) the vehicle achieves 150 mpg, or 525 miles per petroleum gallon.

We've been listening forever to the "The war is for oil so we need to reduce our oil consumption, death to SUVs, buy more hybrids", and "SUVs are pumping too much CO2 into the atmosphere causing global warming, the world is coming to an end, buy a hybrid" arguments for a long time. Now all of a sudden this doesn't seem to matter because GM, and american company made an announcement with their view of hybrids? Only Japanese hybrids are good for you? Doesn't make sense.


NY1911 - was aware of the unsprung weight issue, however figured that the motors could be mounted on the chassis and connected using a floating shaft. However, hadn't really considered the inefficiencies of 4 motors vs one.

edit - other question - why not a turbine to charge the battery instead of a 3 cylinder motor?

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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ny1911
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1hp
Jan 8 2007, 09:33 AM

edit - other question - why not a turbine to charge the battery instead of a 3 cylinder motor?

What would you use to make the turbine spin (seems it will require fuel of some sort)? The advantages of a turbine are the weight reduction that comes with high rpms.
So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.
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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

Yes - I mean't a fuel powered turbine. Should be more efficient than a 3 cylinder engine burning fuel.

Or maybe a Mr. Fusion unit.......................

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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ny1911
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Senior Carp
How about 1.1 jigawatts from a flux capacitor? 89th comes in here somewhere...

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So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Axtremus
Jan 8 2007, 01:50 AM
Hmm... I vaguely recall you posted, way back, something about GM needing to renegotiate some big union contract in 2007, and it could be "make or break" for it. My apology if my recollection is faulty... but just in case it isn't, any new insight on that?

Yeah, they still have that contract negotiation coming up. Less pressure, given the successful employee buyout last year and the sale of GMAC. But its still pretty important.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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ny1911
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I'm wondering when they dump Saab.
So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.
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