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Rent to illegals!; ...or be sued by the ACLU
Topic Started: Dec 26 2006, 10:41 AM (566 Views)
The 89th Key
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http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/26/D8M8MLDG0.html

That's the ACLU for ya...
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Perhaps you missed this part ....

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The lawsuit claims the measure, scheduled to take effect Jan. 12, is so poorly drafted that it excludes even legal immigrants from renting.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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The 89th Key
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No, I didn't miss that part. I dont see what is wrong with this:

Quote:
 
The new law calls for property managers or owners to verify the immigration or citizenship status of apartment renters.


I wouldn't think twice if my landlord, upon signing a lease, said he needed to verify my immigration status. Same with my employer, or if I was getting a state drivers license.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Maybe we could put them on jets and fly all 30 million of them home south of the border every evening.

Would 30 million fit under America's bridges?
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QuirtEvans
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The 89th Key
Dec 26 2006, 02:10 PM
No, I didn't miss that part. I dont see what is wrong with this:

Quote:
 
The new law calls for property managers or owners to verify the immigration or citizenship status of apartment renters.


I wouldn't think twice if my landlord, upon signing a lease, said he needed to verify my immigration status. Same with my employer, or if I was getting a state drivers license.

Personally, I don't see what's wrong with it either. We require employers to do it, and there is no question of the legality of that, so I don't see why landlords are any different.

However, if it's a crappy law that won't let you rent to legal aliens, then it has to be tossed out.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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The 89th Key
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I completely agree with you there. I dont know enough about the legal system and more specifically the federal law that the ACLU claims this violates.
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QuirtEvans
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The 89th Key
Dec 26 2006, 03:06 PM
I completely agree with you there. I dont know enough about the legal system and more specifically the federal law that the ACLU claims this violates.

And that's my point. For all you know, they may merely be objecting to the idea that it makes it more difficult for LEGAL aliens to rent an apartment.

I have a feeling they want to go farther than that, but the story isn't really clear about it.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Steve Miller
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The 89th Key
Dec 26 2006, 12:10 PM
The new law calls for property managers or owners to verify the immigration or citizenship status of apartment renters.

And just how the hell are we supposed to do that?
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Driver's license? oh those can be faked.

Birth Certificate? oh those can be faked.

Passport?
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The 89th Key
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Social Security card?

Like when you apply for a job. ID and SS card.
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QuirtEvans
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Steve Miller
Dec 26 2006, 03:52 PM
The 89th Key
Dec 26 2006, 12:10 PM
The new law calls for property managers or owners to verify the immigration or citizenship status of apartment renters.

And just how the hell are we supposed to do that?

Presumably, the same way employers do.

There's a readily-available form from INS, I think, that tells you what kind of documentation is permissible.

If the people who drafted the law have even the slightest shred of decency, a good faith effort to comply and a retention of copies of the documentation you were given as part of that good faith effort should suffice to avoid a penalty.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
I think SS cards are easy to counterfeit.
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The 89th Key
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Everything except money is pretty easy to conterfeit, Kenny. Regardless, there are accepted standards that the government and/or employers use to verify immigration status. Use those.
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QuirtEvans
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kenny
Dec 26 2006, 04:10 PM
I think SS cards are easy to counterfeit.

I don't believe that an SS card, alone, is enough. Form I-9 requires something like a driver's license, in addition to the SS card. There's a whole range of things ... sort of like the menu at a Chinese restaurant ... one from Column B, one from Column C.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Steve Miller
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kenny
Dec 26 2006, 02:10 PM
I think SS cards are easy to counterfeit.

It's *all* easy to counterfeit, and there is no database where I (as either an employer or a landlord) can check to see if the docs are legit. How about we stop trying to make employers and landlords the bad guys and start pushing the INS to do their job?

Naw - not gonna happen...
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QuirtEvans
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Steve Miller
Dec 26 2006, 04:20 PM
kenny
Dec 26 2006, 02:10 PM
I think SS cards are easy to counterfeit.

It's *all* easy to counterfeit, and there is no database where I (as either an employer or a landlord) can check to see if the docs are legit. How about we stop trying to make employers and landlords the bad guys and start pushing the INS to do their job?

Naw - not gonna happen...

As I said, Steve, if it was the federal requirement we are talking about, a good faith effort (combined with copies of what documentation you obtained) is good enough. You aren't a guarantor against fraud.

Hopefully, the drafters of this law did the same thing.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Steve Miller
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QuirtEvans
Dec 26 2006, 02:20 PM
kenny
Dec 26 2006, 04:10 PM
I think SS cards are easy to counterfeit.

I don't believe that an SS card, alone, is enough. Form I-9 requires something like a driver's license, in addition to the SS card. There's a whole range of things ... sort of like the menu at a Chinese restaurant ... one from Column B, one from Column C.

All far too easy to get on the street - about $25 per card. So easy, in fact, that the INS (or whatever they call themselves these days) has started busting illegals under statutes designed to prevent identity theft, presumably because they have no other statutes that they can actually enforce.

They get deported. They're back inside of a week.

The "system" is screwed up.
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QuirtEvans
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Which is why there should be a national ID card.

But people concerned with privacy have a cow about that.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
The only answer is for America to become just like the countries these people come from.
Then we'll be crossing the border.
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Steve Miller
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QuirtEvans
Dec 26 2006, 02:23 PM
Hopefully, the drafters of this law did the same thing.

That's what concerns me. There's one hick town here in SoCA that has passed a similar law. I've never done any business there, mostly because there isn't much business to be conducted there other than the manufacture and distribution of crack.

For this I am grateful. God knows how they've worded their law.
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QuirtEvans
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I don't think a national ID card is synonymous with becoming just like Mexico, Kenny.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Steve Miller
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QuirtEvans
Dec 26 2006, 02:26 PM
Which is why there should be a national ID card.

But people concerned with privacy have a cow about that.

All they really need to do is to establish an online database where I can enter a name, a SS# and a DOB and see if they all match. A simple yes or no would do it.

But I still say it's not my job...
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QuirtEvans
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Steve Miller
Dec 26 2006, 04:32 PM
QuirtEvans
Dec 26 2006, 02:26 PM
Which is why there should be a national ID card.

But people concerned with privacy have a cow about that.

All they really need to do is to establish an online database where I can enter a name, a SS# and a DOB and see if they all match. A simple yes or no would do it.

But I still say it's not my job...

I don't see how that improves anything.

They give you someone else's name, SS #, and DOB. Close enough to their own to make it look good.

Same problem.

I suppose you'll say that, if you've checked the database, you couldn't be liable. But, if you get documentation, you can't be liable either. Same diff.

As for whether it's your job, there's lots of things we all have to do that are not our job. It's not my job to keep my sidewalk clear of snow ... except that it is. It's not my job to make sure that employees are legal to work, or to provide them health insurance and time off for medical leave ... except that it is.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
We should invade Mexico, overthrow the government, and make it the newest state. Then people can come and go as they please.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
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I suppose you'll say that, if you've checked the database, you couldn't be liable.  But, if you get documentation, you can't be liable either.  Same diff. 


Agreed -I'm not liable either way. I do what has to be done, even as I know it's a complete waste of time. If you're going to require me to do the screening that should be done by the Feds however, it would ceertainly be nice if you gave me the tools to do a proper job.

Instead we get eyewash to cover the failed bureaucracy that is the INS.

Quote:
 
It's not my job to keep my sidewalk clear of snow ... except that it is.
It is? I didn't know that - not that I would have any reason to know it.

Quote:
 
It's not my job...to provide them health insurance and time off for medical leave ... except that it is.


Nowhere does it state that I am required to provide medical insurance. As it happens, I provide medical insurance for which I pay half if the employee wants it. None of them want it. It's too expensive - they use their spouses insurance if the spouse works for a big company or go to County Hospital if they don't have that coverage.

Not sure on the medical leave thing - they could certainly take it if they wanted to, but I don't believe I am obligated to pay them during that time or to hire them back unless I have work for them to do.

You probably know better than I, however.
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