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| im very excited and thrilled; barenboim/bach | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 22 2006, 02:36 AM (388 Views) | |
| bachophile | Dec 22 2006, 02:36 AM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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im seeing daniel barenboim preform the WTC, next week in tel aviv as part of the 70th anniversary celebrations of the israel philharmonic. sitting down right in front of him. jealous apple? zubin has been going out of his way to give us spectacular concerts and recitals |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| jon-nyc | Dec 22 2006, 03:01 AM Post #2 |
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Cheers
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He played them here in October, I think. I didn't go. He did the complete LvB Sonatas at Carnegie 2-3 years ago (over several days). I saw him then. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| bachophile | Dec 22 2006, 06:25 AM Post #3 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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i saw him do LvB in jerusalem 2 years ago, did the tempest, the moonlight, the pathetique and appasionata. i know some dont like his bach, but im pleased to get a chance to hear him again. here is the 70th anniversary program http://w4.israeline.com/list/series_det.as...ason=2007&id=53 |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| George K | Dec 22 2006, 06:30 AM Post #4 |
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Finally
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I listened to part of the WTC the other week, and was impressed with how emotional he made parts of it sound. Now, a Bach purist might object, but I found it engaging. Interestingly (at least for me), is that when I sat down to play some of it myself yesterday, I found myself playing in a similar style (with extra dissonances added for free!), some rubato, adding dynamics, etc. Bach is timeless. And I'm very jealous of you! |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| bachophile | Dec 25 2006, 08:31 AM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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tonights the night. showtime in 2 hours....
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| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Mark | Dec 25 2006, 08:42 AM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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![]() Enjoy the show Bach! |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| DivaDeb | Dec 25 2006, 09:26 AM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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tell him hi for me
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| apple | Dec 25 2006, 09:27 AM Post #8 |
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one of the angels
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yes i am.. quite jealous. i have played nothing but Christmas music for my ensemble/choir production for the last month.. no Bach, no scales.. i cannot wait to get back in touch with my Bach... alas i am vacating tomorrow but thankfully with a brief Bach reprieve at Mark's in Wisconsin. |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| bachophile | Dec 25 2006, 11:14 PM Post #9 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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ok here is my review while its fresh in my mind. he came out and at first spoke to the audience (in hebrew of course) about his love for the israel philharmonic and how its been his home for 50 years. then he mentioned pnina salzmans recent death and dedicated the concert to her memory. then he began to play. i had prepared myself by listening over and over to gould's version, and for change jarretts version. but this... from the first notes of the c major prelude i understood what kind of recital it would be. heavy use of pedal, strong dynamics differentials, the piano was a mere zephyr of a whisper, the forte causing gut vibrations (playing what looked like a 500 foot steinway). i sat up front to the right so i couldnt see his hands but the wing of the grand directed the music right to my face. the fugues where played very slowly, and again the voices where accentuated with heavy volume differences, very different from gould. basically he played bach like a beethoven sonata. my opinon...well the purists would foam at the mouth and scream bloody hell. but the truth is...it worked, he pulled it off. u close your eyes and understand that the "notes" of bach are timeless, and the heavy emotional interpretation easily carries u away. maybe on a CD its not accurate, but live, it becomes a real heady experience. also the thundering grand piano in a huge concert hall, as opposed to the barely audible clavier in a small room, yet it works. so while empathising with the purists, i think that the old man himself, jsb, would have also been pleased to know his contrapunctal sounds can be so emotive. in conclusion...a wonderful and instructive evening on what music is all about. and p.s., diva deb, he says hey... |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| bachophile | Dec 25 2006, 11:18 PM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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just saw this on wiki after i posted the above... Similarly, Barenboim's Well-Tempered Clavier is played with frequent use of the right pedal, a device absent from the keyboard instruments of Bach's time, and one which creates a very different sonority from that favored by interpreters such as Glenn Gould [citation needed]. Moreover, in the fugues, one voice is often played considerably louder than the others, favouring a "melodistic" interpretation, rather than emphasizing Bach's counterpoint, as in Gould's interpretation [citation needed]. When justifying his interpretation of Bach, Barenboim claims that he is interested in the long tradition of playing Bach, that has existed for two and a half centuries, rather than in the exact style of performance that existed in Bach's time: "The study of old instruments and historic performance practice has taught us a great deal, but the main point, the impact of harmony, has been ignored. This is proved by the fact that tempo is described as an independent phenomenon. It is claimed that one of Bach's gavottes must be played fast and another one slowly. But tempo is not independent!... I think that concerning oneself purely with historic performance practice and the attempt to reproduce the sound of older styles of music-making is limiting and no indication of progress. Mendelssohn and Schumann tried to introduce Bach into their own period, as did Liszt with his transcriptions and Busoni with his arrangements. In America Leopold Stokowski also tried to do it with his arrangements for orchestra. This was always the result of "progressive" efforts to bring Bach closer to the particular period. I have no philosophical problem with someone playing Bach and making it sound like Boulez. My problem is more with someone who tries to imitate the sound of that time..." (cited from "Ich bin mit Bach aufgewachsen" ["I was reared on Bach"], article by Daniel Barenboim, published in the booklets of his recordings of the Well-Tempered Clavier. Translated by Gery Bramall.) |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| pianojerome | Dec 25 2006, 11:27 PM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Sounds exciting and thrilling! |
| Sam | |
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| George K | Dec 26 2006, 04:22 AM Post #12 |
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Finally
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Now you must buy his recording of WTC.![]() "I will say that I absolutely loved these performances of Bach's masterful keyboard writing. However, if you have grown up on the Bach of Gould and Schiff you may not find this to your liking. Their main focus was to clearly detail all of the polyphonic writing in the music to better outline the counterpoint; which is great. Gould's 1981 Goldberg variations will always be the best. Barenboim's playing is not as clear as some might like, he instead focuses on the charm and elegance of the pieces and stresses the harmonic tension but never sacrificing the direction of the melodic lines. That being said, the sound on this disc is wonderful, the playing is fantastic. I can understand apprehension about hearing Bach from Daniel Barenboim. His odd choice of rubatos in the Beethoven sonatas have left me disappointed and confused many times but he really does a straight up job with these pieces, worrying less about his ego and concept and more about making beautiful music. I love how after conducting most of the great masterpieces of wagner, beethoven, and a lot of contemporary music, toward the end of his career, Barenboim decides he's ready to interpret these bach pieces. I'm sure you will enjoy it." =-=-=-=-=-= Classics today is not as favorable: Artistic Quality: 5/10 Recording Quality 8/10 Pablo Casals reportedly claimed that one should play Bach like Brahms, and Daniel Barenboim certainly takes that advice to heart. As on his 1989 Goldberg Variations recording, Barenboim's approach to The Well-Tempered Clavier Book 1 puts pianism first and counterpoint last. Listeners familiar with the polyphonic clarity that distinguishes pianists as disparate as Gould, Schiff, Koroliov, Hewitt, and Horszowski may be taken aback at Barenboim's liberal dollops of sustain pedal (the E-flat Prelude is an extreme example). Barenboim often resorts to left-hand octave doublings in order to reinforce long pedal points and to achieve textural variety, as in the B minor Prelude's outer sections. While Barenboim's wide array of expressive nuances, dynamic extremes, and pedal effects aim to underline the music's harmonic tension, they frequently obscure the direction of individual lines. As a result, subsidiary voices randomly fall in and out of focus in the Preludes in E minor, E-flat minor, and F minor, as well as the F-sharp minor, G-sharp minor, A minor, and C-sharp minor Fugues. In his booklet remarks, Barenboim describes the latter as "a dance with enormous vitality," but you'd never know that via his droopy performance. Yet Barenboim also surprises. The G major and B-flat major Preludes couldn't be more supple and breezy, while the C major Fugue and B-flat minor Prelude receive heartfelt and intelligently voiced readings that stand with the very best. No doubt a strong personality is at work at the keyboard, yet for less pretentious manifestations of "old fashioned" Bach pianism I prefer Edwin Fischer and Samuel Feinberg. Daniel Barenboim's rhetorical, essentially pianistic approach to Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier Book 1 proves even more postured and self-aggrandizing throughout Book 2. The pianist applies added bass octaves with less discretion this time, transforming certain pieces into "Bachmaninov" preludes. He employs sudden dynamic shifts and emphatic accents that create sectionalized rather than cumulative effects (for example, the swooning hairpins in the D minor fugue and B-flat minor prelude, the C minor fugue's blatantly obvious forte/piano alterations, or the contrivances that inflate the F minor prelude to Wagnerian dimensions). Barenboim tastelessly rushes the D major prelude's upward scales while dispatching the F minor fugue and G-sharp minor prelude with heavy, humorless hands. As before, Barenboim employs his prodigious portfolio of pianistic devices with an aim to underline the music's harmonic tension, yet it often obscures the direction of individual lines. This occurs mainly in his soft playing, and in the way fugal entrances trigger subsidiary lines to duck, cover, and murmur in the background. Granted, the D-sharp minor, G major, and B-flat major preludes show that Barenboim can play Bach lightly, straightforwardly, and simply. Too bad he chooses not to most of the time. Not surprisingly, Barenboim's adjustments to the basic pulse and frequently slow tempos require three rather than the usual two CDs alotted for Book 2. If old-world Bach pianism appeals to you, the old Edwin Fischer and Samuel Feinberg WTC cycles convey two key qualities that Barenboim lacks: joy and humility. =-=-=-=-=-=-= However, I loved it! |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| apple | Dec 26 2006, 05:09 AM Post #13 |
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one of the angels
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i like pedalling Bach |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| jazzyd | Dec 26 2006, 07:05 AM Post #14 |
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Junior Carp
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[size=1]I tend to agree with Classics Today.[/size] ![]() It's a matter of taste, of course. For me it's not so much the type of liberties Barenboim takes that I dislike, but rather the manner in which they are applied. |
| One has a stronger hand when there's more people playing your same cards. | |
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| George K | Dec 26 2006, 07:33 AM Post #15 |
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Finally
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"Bachmaninov" ::Snort:: |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 26 2006, 07:55 AM Post #16 |
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MAMIL
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I do so love critics. Why can't they just say they don't like the way he plays it? If there's anything more postured and self-aggrandizing outside of Washington DC than a music critic, I have yet to see it. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Cathys | Dec 26 2006, 10:19 AM Post #17 |
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Senior Carp
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Bach I'm envious I'd have loved to have heard that concert!! Sounds like you had a very nice time. Cathy |
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| DivaDeb | Dec 26 2006, 05:45 PM Post #18 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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What a crock :lol: The Maestro may not be the most humble man I've ever met, but he is certainly one of the most gallant, and he has a great deal to be unhumble about. As for joy...in my opinion, he's a very ebullient and joyous person. He's fun. And cute. He bowed and kissed my hand, so that reviewer can kiss my....erm.... |
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| Mikhailoh | Dec 26 2006, 06:13 PM Post #19 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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How many great artists do you know that could be classified as 'humble'... that's hilarious! I envy you that concert, I like to pedal in Bach as well.. sparingly, but still. (and I am nowhere near the level of interpreting Bach as Apple or Bachophile). I'll have to buy the CD. I like dramatic music. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| sue | Dec 26 2006, 09:17 PM Post #20 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I would have loved to be there too. While I prefer the unpedalled Bach, I love hearing different takes on music. You can learn so much, and see so much more of it. I have several versions of some Albeniz pieces, and Barenboim's is my favourite by far, because of the emotion he adds that the others just don't seem to get. Doesn't mean it's always right, but how dull if everyone played everything the same way. |
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| jon-nyc | Dec 27 2006, 03:42 AM Post #21 |
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Cheers
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Sounds great, Bach. By the way, I was wrong about the october date - he's actually playing them here on Jan 20-21. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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