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Do you care airport screeners can see privates
Topic Started: Dec 4 2006, 09:14 PM (1,692 Views)
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
They were already searching you.
They were already X-raying your bags.
You were already walking through a metal detector.
You were already taking off your shoes.
They could even pass that metal detector probe all over your body and between your legs even up there where you legs meet at your precious secret private no-no place.

I guess none of that was unreasonable search. - Okie Dokie then.

They just got a new machine.
The new machine works better than the old machine.
Same function, just performed better.

I don't see the old or the new machines mentioned in the 4th amendment.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
It's simple. I don't view the reason for the search to be unreasonable.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Daniel\
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Fulla-Carp
kenny
Dec 5 2006, 02:12 PM
Dewey I'm with you.
I support it.

But over half the people here don't.

Speak up you majority.
Why not?
Isn't there something more here important than your modesty?

Kenny,

I agree with IT that the health risks are not minimal, or reasonable.

As for modesty, modesty and privacy are silimar issues, but different. The privacy concerns relate to the technology's obvious ability to store images and passenger information, but modesty is part of the issue in my opinion.

We are already going though metal dectectors, having portable metal dectectors used also, being subject to patdowns, and partially strip searched.

There should be a reasonable limit to the amount of privacy and human dignity (and I do not think that being subjected to a giant X ray machine shows a respect for human dignity) we are willing to give up, and especially in this case, in light of the fact that many other airline security issues, like screening cargo, are not being addressed now in a serious way already.

Furthermore, this giant X ray machine is not likely to be the end of invasive security measures. One can easily imagine national identification and biometric identification all being digital and cross referenced and all in the name of security.

It is true that I have no faith in the ablity of TSA employees to react in a professional way to giant X rays of human beings but beyond this- I think that we should think about what we are doing and why because if we want to give up our way of life because of potential terrorist threats it is easily possible to imagine living in a society with no individual freedoms and no privacy rights whatsoever.

I have been flying since the early '70's. I do not expect to be able to go back to those day but if I get a vote I am not agreeing to a nightmare future of giant X ray machines either.

I was not going to post again in this thread but since you asked- there is something more here important than my modesty. :tongue:

Ps And yes- IT is exactly right. It is not a reasonable search to put X ray waves through your brain to search for a gun or a knife or a knife like object.

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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Dewey wrote, "I don't view the reason for the search to be unreasonable."

In fact, there is a *very* valid reason for this search.

I think we are just to sexually up tight, like apple said, we all have one.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
I do think the health risk is a valid concern though, especially for frequent flyers.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
It's very possible that George W. Bush may eventually be considered the worst President ever - but not for any of the reasons I've seen argued here. If we ever lose a city to a terrorist attack, where the terrorists and their weapons, waltzed across the U.S. border that the Bush administration has failed miserably in controlling, he will have earned the scorn and contempt of the judgment of history. If another airliner is hijacked and flown into a skyscraper, the Capitol, a nuclear power plant - or even if it is just blown up - and this technology could have stopped it, but wasn't implemented because of these kinds of arguments, those having made the arguments will have earned similar judgment.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Daniel\
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Fulla-Carp
The line has to be drawn somewhere. I am not willing to agree without being coerced into having my brain X rayed to find the box cutter.

Find it another way.

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ny1911
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Senior Carp
kenny
Dec 5 2006, 04:42 PM
I think it's dumb they are going to blur out the genitals.

Guess where the explosives are going to be hidden - in the Jihad Jockstrap, or the Down-With-Bush-Dildo.

Goodness Gracious Great Balls of Fire!
So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
OK Daniel, no problem. Just put all your clothes in this basket, bend over, & spread your cheeks.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dewey
Dec 5 2006, 06:20 PM
It's simple. I don't view the reason for the search to be unreasonable.


For the Government, no search is unreasonable, which is why their powers are limited by the Constitution.

Quirt can perhaps give some insight into this question (and if I wrong at all I am sure he will gently point out my errors), but it seems to be that Governmental search does still require a warrant, which require probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched. I don't see where general searches are permitted by the Constitution.

I don't know whether this has been adjudicated, but I suspect it deserves some review.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
Dec 5 2006, 06:20 PM
Dewey wrote, "I don't view the reason for the search to be unreasonable."

In fact, there is a *very* valid reason for this search.

I think we are just to sexually up tight, like apple said, we all have one.

It has nothing to do with being sexually uptight. That is (cleverly clothed) straw man.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dewey
Dec 5 2006, 06:28 PM
It's very possible that George W. Bush may eventually be considered the worst President ever - but not for any of the reasons I've seen argued here. If we ever lose a city to a terrorist attack, where the terrorists and their weapons, waltzed across the U.S. border that the Bush administration has failed miserably in controlling, he will have earned the scorn and contempt of the judgment of history. If another airliner is hijacked and flown into a skyscraper, the Capitol, a nuclear power plant - or even if it is just blown up - and this technology could have stopped it, but wasn't implemented because of these kinds of arguments, those having made the arguments will have earned similar judgment.

That is rather bombastic rhetoric, Dewey. :wacko:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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BeeLady
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Middle Aged Carp
kenny
Dec 5 2006, 02:28 AM
I thing the main outrage is being able to see people's genitals.


Maybe you guys need to give birth just once in a lifetime.....Modesty becomes a thing of the past...... :blink:

But I am concerned about radiation exposure. Having traveled much in a previous life, at least once a week, I would shudder to think about the amount I would be exposed to at that rate..... :(

"My wheel shall sing responsive to my tread,
And I will spin so fine, so strong a thread
Fate shall not cut it, nor Time's forces break"
"Distaff and Spindle: Sonnets by Mary Ashley Townsend" 1895
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
For the Government, no search is unreasonable, which is why their powers are limited by the Constitution.


I agree, but this is irrelevant. The question wasn't whether the government thinks it's unreasonable, but if I do. I don't.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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BeeLady
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Middle Aged Carp
And Dewey, while on the subject of flying.....Did you get my email? Help! I need reservations soon!

And a chair is on it's way, it would seem.... :wub:
"My wheel shall sing responsive to my tread,
And I will spin so fine, so strong a thread
Fate shall not cut it, nor Time's forces break"
"Distaff and Spindle: Sonnets by Mary Ashley Townsend" 1895
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
That is rather bombastic rhetoric, Dewey.


Whether a comment is bombastic or not is solely a matter of how the comment is received by the reader or listener, but it is no measure of the comment's truthfulness.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dewey
Dec 5 2006, 07:37 PM
Quote:
 
For the Government, no search is unreasonable, which is why their powers are limited by the Constitution.


I agree, but this is irrelevant. The question wasn't whether the government thinks it's unreasonable, but if I do. I don't.

Thank God we don't live in the United States of Dewey. I asked you how you reconcile it with the 4th Amendment, not your preferences.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Dec 5 2006, 09:51 PM
Dewey
Dec 5 2006, 07:37 PM
Quote:
 
For the Government, no search is unreasonable, which is why their powers are limited by the Constitution.


I agree, but this is irrelevant. The question wasn't whether the government thinks it's unreasonable, but if I do. I don't.

Thank God we don't live in the United States of Dewey. I asked you how you reconcile it with the 4th Amendment, not your preferences.

I've done as you asked, IT. I do not feel it to be unreasonable. The poll wasn't if the government felt it acceptable. Of course the government will grab all authority it can get away with. The question is whether or not we the people, the ultimate authority, feel it to be acceptable. That's what the poll is trying to get a reading on.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Dewey
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
BeeLady
Dec 5 2006, 09:39 PM
And Dewey, while on the subject of flying.....Did you get my email?  Help! I need reservations soon!

And a chair is on it's way, it would seem.... :wub:

Bee Lady, check your email. I just spoke very briefly with Molly in Honduras, to discuss the measurements. She was headed into Teguc tomorrow morning - and therefore would be able to get into the internet cafe - so rather than read her the list of measurements needed, I just forwarded the email to her, cc-ing you. We should hear back soon.

As to any airline flight numbers, etc., I don't know them myself. Vicki makes all of those arrangements, and at the moment she's up on the hill a few hundred yards from Molly (I was hoping they'd be nearby, and that I could speak with her about the flight arrangements, but Molly was down in the village at home.) It's possible that our new assistant in the office would be able to provide details, but he may also actually be down there right now. I know that Vicki was going to start training him to take groups. I'll call the office tomorrow morning & see if he's here or there.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Dewey
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
Thank God we don't live in the United States of Dewey.


On that score we agree. That would be every bit as frightening as the United States of Ivory.

^_^

"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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BeeLady
Member Avatar
Middle Aged Carp
Dewey
Dec 5 2006, 11:10 PM
BeeLady
Dec 5 2006, 09:39 PM
And Dewey, while on the subject of flying.....Did you get my email?  Help! I need reservations soon!

And a chair is on it's way, it would seem.... :wub:

Bee Lady, check your email. I just spoke very briefly with Molly in Honduras, to discuss the measurements. She was headed into Teguc tomorrow morning - and therefore would be able to get into the internet cafe - so rather than read her the list of measurements needed, I just forwarded the email to her, cc-ing you. We should hear back soon.

It's possible that our new assistant in the office would be able to provide details, but he may also actually be down there right now.

This is one airlne flight for which a full xray would be worth it! :sombrero:

Spoke to Mary today, Dewey, and so far no details on flights. Will keep at it...We just don't want to find all the flights full.
"My wheel shall sing responsive to my tread,
And I will spin so fine, so strong a thread
Fate shall not cut it, nor Time's forces break"
"Distaff and Spindle: Sonnets by Mary Ashley Townsend" 1895
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Daniel\
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Fulla-Carp
Dewey
Dec 5 2006, 07:04 PM
The question is whether or not we the people, the ultimate authority, feel it to be acceptable. That's what the poll is trying to get a reading on.

And my side my is winning which ought to answer your question.



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1hp
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Fulla-Carp

Where did the health risk assumption come from. If it was an X-Ray machine it would penetrate the human body and more likely show an image of a human skeleton. Believe the machine works on millimetre-wave technology, which is able to penetrate the fibers on clothing, but that's about it. Dense objects (including plastic) can not be penetrated by this technology.

Information on the system

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and................
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
I think it might be old technology anyway:

Posted Image
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Now you're talking, AC!!!

I recall something about the night vision setting on some video cameras that could see through clothes in broad daylight...
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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