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Hey, Ivorythumper, whaddya think of this Church?; Smogeater!
Topic Started: Nov 29 2006, 01:09 PM (649 Views)
George K
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Finally
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MILAN, Nov. 27 — When the American architect Richard Meier was asked to design a church in Rome to commemorate the 2,000th anniversary of Christianity, he offered an imposing white concrete structure dominated by three soaring “sails.”The project’s main technical sponsor got to work on a coating that would enhance Mr. Meier’s trademark white sculptural forms. It came up with a material that essentially cleans itself, minimizing the need for maintenance.

What the sponsor, the Italcementi Group, did not know was that the new material — which contains titanium dioxide, a white pigment — has another peculiarity. It “eats” surrounding smog.

Extensive testing has since determined that construction products containing titanium dioxide help to destroy pollutants found in car exhaust and heating emissions, scientists say.

Several companies are now developing smog-eating products that can be used not only for the facades of buildings but also in paint, plaster and paving materials for roads. The new substances are now being tried in buildings, squares and highways in Europe and Japan.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Besides that, what do you think of the way it looks?
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
you didn't ask for my opinion, but here it is anyway. I like it! But where's the cross? Is there a cross? It looks more like an art building or a museum. It doesn't really look like a church. It needs a cross.

As to titanium, I don't know anything about it other than it's used in paint.
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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George K
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Finally
justme
Nov 29 2006, 03:18 PM
you didn't ask for my opinion, but here it is anyway. I like it! But where's the cross? Is there a cross? It looks more like an art building or a museum. It doesn't really look like a church. It needs a cross.

DingDingDing!

Give the lady a cigar (if she smokes 'em!)

Other than the bell tower, I see nothing that makes it look like a church.

(edit: Love the avatar, justme!)
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Cross or no cross, if I walked past that building I'd have no doubt that was a church.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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The 89th Key
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I like it! I also dont think every church needs a cross on the outside. But it couldn't hurt to have a white-on-white cross just below those bells.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
According to Christianity, Jesus is coming back. Has anyone ever thought that maybe the last danged thing he's going to want to see is friggin' CROSS?

I remember, as a kid, sitting in a Catholic Mass with a Catholic buddy of mine, and looking up at a crucifix and thinking, "Man.. Jesus sure had some great abs!"

sorry... sorry... :hide:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Besides, I'll bet you that once it's dusk, the entire inside of the church basks in a warm glow of light, and an interior cross is clearly visible through the considerable expanse of glass, inviting worshippers into the sacred space within.

The totality of the theospatial experience is therefore not constrained by concepts of "inside" and "outside," but rather, they are inextricably intertwined, much as our own souls are an inextricable amalgam of sacred and profane...


:tomato:
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Frank_W
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Profound, Dewey.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
Dewey,

What speaks to you about it being a church? I think it's beautiful, don't get me wrong. But how can you tell it's a church?

Aside to Frank W: SHUT UP!
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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AlbertaCrude
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justme
Nov 29 2006, 01:18 PM

As to titanium, I don't know anything about it other than it's used in paint.

Titanium Oxide has interesting properties that can be used in soil remediation. We're actually doing quite bit of research into its remedial properties at the nanotechnology level at which it appears to have an affinity for Arsenic contaminated soil.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
justme
Nov 29 2006, 04:38 PM
Dewey,

What speaks to you about it being a church? I think it's beautiful, don't get me wrong. But how can you tell it's a church?


For starters, unfortunately, there are very few building types that allow themselves to be as expressive as churches permit. Generally speaking, any building this expressive will be something that society places a high, even if hypocritically so, value on - church, museum, music hall; the list of possibilities is actually relatively short. Second, the bell tower is an obvious giveaway (hence my semi-snarky "other than that" comment"). From the picture, the bell tower is the giveaway.

But I also think the picture is probably not a very good depiction of how this building is really experienced, in space, by an observer. All kidding aside, this is a building that is very much about respectfully breaking down the filter between in and out: What's going on inside the facade is no less a part of the facade of the building than the actual exterior building materials - it may be even more critical than the building skin itself. The space inside, clearly visible to the observer, tells the story of the building, and the nestling forms of the exterior almost give an impression that the space, and the worshippers within, are what's sacred, special, about the building, and that they are being cupped, sheltered, protected in the hands of God.

I think it's an exquisite building, but I also think that while the picture's nice, it doesn't tell the full story of the building as it really exists.

And that's a serious, snarkiness-free, interpretation.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Jane D'Oh
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Fulla-Carp
I still like 89's white on white cross idea... :P
Pfft.
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jane D'Oh
Nov 29 2006, 06:03 PM
I still like 89's white on white cross idea... :P

Dewey's talked me out of it. :lol:
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Frank_W
Nov 29 2006, 05:34 PM
According to Christianity, Jesus is coming back. Has anyone ever thought that maybe the last danged thing he's going to want to see is friggin' CROSS?

HAHAHAHAHAHA
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Dewey
Nov 29 2006, 05:49 PM
justme
Nov 29 2006, 04:38 PM
Dewey,

What speaks to you about it being a church? I think it's beautiful, don't get me wrong. But how can you tell it's a church?


For starters, unfortunately, there are very few building types that allow themselves to be as expressive as churches permit. Generally speaking, any building this expressive will be something that society places a high, even if hypocritically so, value on - church, museum, music hall; the list of possibilities is actually relatively short. Second, the bell tower is an obvious giveaway (hence my semi-snarky "other than that" comment"). From the picture, the bell tower is the giveaway.

But I also think the picture is probably not a very good depiction of how this building is really experienced, in space, by an observer. All kidding aside, this is a building that is very much about respectfully breaking down the filter between in and out: What's going on inside the facade is no less a part of the facade of the building than the actual exterior building materials - it may be even more critical than the building skin itself. The space inside, clearly visible to the observer, tells the story of the building, and the nestling forms of the exterior almost give an impression that the space, and the worshippers within, are what's sacred, special, about the building, and that they are being cupped, sheltered, protected in the hands of God.

I think it's an exquisite building, but I also think that while the picture's nice, it doesn't tell the full story of the building as it really exists.

And that's a serious, snarkiness-free, interpretation.

Well said Dewey.

To distil--a church is a Worship Space, the rest is detail--and I think this church is lost in details.
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
looks like offspring of the Sydney Opera House...as if it had borne young and hung bells on it, lest it walked away out of sight....

feeling whistful in the ice storm...apple...you guys home safe?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
jon-nyc
Nov 29 2006, 06:52 PM
Frank_W
Nov 29 2006, 05:34 PM
According to Christianity, Jesus is coming back. Has anyone ever thought that maybe the last danged thing he's going to want to see is friggin' CROSS?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

:spit:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Nov 29 2006, 07:25 PM
jon-nyc
Nov 29 2006, 06:52 PM
Frank_W
Nov 29 2006, 05:34 PM
According to Christianity, Jesus is coming back. Has anyone ever thought that maybe the last danged thing he's going to want to see is friggin' CROSS?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

:spit:

He might like to see that there are still those that remember him and what he's done.

So yea, I'd think he'd like to see a cross of two.
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
DivaDeb
Nov 29 2006, 03:08 PM
looks like offspring of the Sydney Opera House...as if it had borne young and hung bells on it, lest it walked away out of sight....

feeling whistful in the ice storm...apple...you guys home safe?

That thought struck me as well. Actually, the design to me looks pretty 1970's. I don't care for it much.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I liked the 70's. Well.. I think I did.. someone told me I had a pretty good time.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
I know the building quite well -- it was the winning entry in the 1995 Church of the Year 2000 competitionm, which was the subject of my dissertation, and I visited the project while it was still under construction.

I much prefer to read what every one else says about the building, and about the problem of church architecture in general. "Theospatial", Dewey? I'll have to use that one in some esoteric article someday... :lol:

It is a very elegant building -- as to be expected of Meier. Of the six competition entries it was by far the most successful, but for my money it lacks any reference to "cultural memory" that helps people locate themselves liturgically and ecclesiologically. Ideosyncratic expression is the modern approach to sacred architecture after Ronchamp (Le Corbusier 1995)

Posted Image
but fails to appreciate the great scriptural and architectural metaphors of body, temple (dwelling) and city that have informed the vast and diverse tradition of Christian (and many other expressions of sacred) architecture. Christianity is, after all, about the traditio -- that which has been handed on since the apostolic age, which always finds contemporaneous expression in the contingencies of any particular era. It is precarious to try to reinvent the faith with a careful sense of conservancy. The billions of dollars spent in banal church building in the past 50 years are a sad testament to that.

The point of the article seems strange since one of Meier's concerns from the start was the effect of pollution. His staff worked with Italicementi to produce a self cleaning concrete and with Pilkingtons to produce a self cleaning glass.

Thanks for drawing my attention to this.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
"Theospatial", Dewey? I'll have to use that one in some esoteric article someday


Must credit source, IT... ^_^

I knew you'd get a chuckle out of that. You did notice that was part of my "tomato throwing" post, I hope.

And like you, I have tremendous respect for Christian "cultural memory" and Christian symbology in architecture. I almost wrote earlier that it doesn't look like a church that I would personally design. But by the same token, I don't feel that traditional Christian expression must always be the basis of every new design, either. Even though I wouldn't have come up with this design, I have a couple church designs bouncing around in my head (which sadly, will probably never be realized beyond the space between my ears) that are very different from this one, but every bit as non-traditional.

Here's another example of an award-winning, reverential, yet very non-traditional church - a chapel, actually - that I'm also very fond of. Scroll down for a link to the photos:

Bigelow Chapel, New Brighton, Minnesota
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
I like the looks of it, but I'll practically guarantee you that it leaks when it rains, and that it costs a fortune to climate control.
Wag more
Bark less
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
That is a very elegant building, Dewey. Was it endowed by the Bigelow family? Something about that curved wall reminds me of tea bags.... ;)

I have a sense that this sort of modernistic expression has an underlying gnosticism -- following Steven Holl's Ignatius Chapel in Seattle. Everything is about the play of light (a wonderful theme pervading Christian architecture from the Byzantine to Gothic to the fulness of the baroque -- about which a book ought be written) but unlike the premodern predecessors the light is not intended to illuminate for the sake of information, but rather emotion. Ronald Knox's book "Enthusiasm" speaks of this tendency in divergent Christian and quasichristian traditions.

oops -- gotta run -- MS has summoned me. More later!
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
justme
Nov 29 2006, 01:38 PM
Dewey,

What speaks to you about it being a church? I think it's beautiful, don't get me wrong. But how can you tell it's a church?

Aside to Frank W: SHUT UP!

:shrug: What! What'd I do? :baby: :weeping:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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