| Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| I'm goin' to Wal-Mart; Not in San Diego you're not! | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 29 2006, 10:17 AM (341 Views) | |
| George K | Nov 29 2006, 10:17 AM Post #1 |
|
Finally
|
San Diego to Ban Wal-Mart Supercenters SAN DIEGO (AP) -- The City Council here voted late Tuesday to ban certain giant retail stores, dealing a blow to Wal-Mart Stores Inc.'s potential to expand in the nation's eighth-largest city. The measure, approved on a 5-3 vote, prohibits stores of more than 90,000 square feet that use 10 percent of space to sell groceries and other merchandise that is not subject to sales tax. It takes aim at Wal-Mart Supercenter stores, which average 185,000 square feet and sell groceries. Mayor Jerry Sanders will veto the ban if the Council reaffirms it on a second vote, which will likely happen in January, said mayoral spokesman Fred Sainz. The Council can override his veto with five votes. "What the Council did tonight was social engineering, not good public policy," Sainz said. Supporters of the ban argued that Wal-Mart puts smaller competitors out of business, pays workers poorly, and contributes to traffic congestion and pollution. Opponents said the mega-retailer provides jobs and low prices and that a ban would limit consumer choice. "Quite simply, I do not think it is the role of the San Diego City Council to dictate where families should buy their groceries," said Councilman Kevin Faulconer, who opposed the ban. Councilman Tony Young, who joined the 5-3 majority, countered, "I have a vision for San Diego and that vision is about walkable, livable communities, not big, mega-structures that inhibit people's lives." Wal-Mart spokesman Kevin McCall said the Bentonville, Ark.-based company may consider a legal challenge or voter referendum if the measure becomes law. "Certainly we're disappointed but there's still a number of steps left in this process," he said. "We need to look at what our options are." The ban is modeled on a law in Turlock, a city of 70,000 people 85 miles southeast of San Francisco. Turlock prohibited big-box stores over 100,000 square feet that devote at least 5 percent of their space to groceries. Wal-Mart recently dropped its challenge to the Turlock ordinance, which prevented it from building a planned 225,000-square-foot Supercenter store. In July, a federal judge in Fresno said Turlock's zoning law did not infringe on the company's constitutional rights. The state Supreme Court refused to hear the case. Wal-Mart has about 2,000 Supercenter stores, including 21 in California, but none in the San Diego area. The retailer has 18 regular Wal-Mart stores in the San Diego area, including four within limits of the city of 1.3 million people. Wal-Mart has not disclosed plans for a Supercenter store in San Diego area. Sainz, the mayoral spokesman, said the retailer probably wants to expand. "It's complete and total guesswork but I'm inclined they would," Sainz said. "Everything I've seen and heard from them makes me think they would." San Diego's move comes two months after the Chicago City Council failed to override Mayor Richard Daley's veto of a so-called "living-wage" ordinance that would have required giant retailers to pay their workers higher wages. |
|
A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
![]() |
|
| OperaTenor | Nov 29 2006, 10:23 AM Post #2 |
|
Pisa-Carp
|
I just read about this this morning. I think it's a convoluted, loophole-ridden waste of time and city tax dollars. Tax dollars Sandy Eggo can't afford to blow. As much as I don't care for Wal-Mart, I think this is a silly way to attempt to keep them out. |
|
| |
![]() |
|
| The 89th Key | Nov 29 2006, 10:25 AM Post #3 |
|
I forgot my Libertarian handbook at home...as much as I want business to have the rights to do business where it can be successful, should towns have the right to shut out certain businesses? I would think so...but I dont know. Mark, what does it say in that chapter of The Libertarian Manifesto? |
![]() |
|
| George K | Nov 29 2006, 10:26 AM Post #4 |
|
Finally
|
I find it more than a bit interesting how people are outraged by the failure of Wal-Mart to offer a wage of more than $7.50 an hour. The mantra is this: "They're a huge store, a mega corporation, and should pay their workers more." That's why Daley vetoed the proposal in Chicago. However, Barnes and Noble, not a small corporation by any standard, pays its workers less, by 50¢ an hour. Yet, I don't hear cries of outrage about huge Barnes and Noble stores in Chicago. At least be consistent. |
|
A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
![]() |
|
| The 89th Key | Nov 29 2006, 10:31 AM Post #5 |
|
All that is bullsh!t. Companies should pay their employees what they want. Period. (Not aimed at you, Porgie) |
![]() |
|
| George K | Nov 29 2006, 10:36 AM Post #6 |
|
Finally
|
About two years ago, Wal-Mart wanted to convert its regular store in Lake Geneva, WI to a Super Wal-Mart. The town got its collective underwear in a knot, saying that they will not permit this to happen. So, Walmart decided that it would close that store, and build a Super Wal-Mart (literally) across the street, outside of the border of the city. Guess what happened? Yep. There's a Super Wal-Mart in Lake Geneva. The building involved redirecting entrance/exit ramps off of Route 12 (a divided highway) - which Wal-Mart paid for. |
|
A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
![]() |
|
| Dewey | Nov 29 2006, 10:42 AM Post #7 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
It's bad policy. It's a reasonable thing for a city to examine particular land uses, architectural expression, and even sizes of a given occupancy, but I don't think it's legal to have a jurisdiction where it's illegal to have either a specific occupancy type, or a specific size of otherwise permissible occupancy, somewhere in their boundaries. It's perfectly acceptable (if often abused) to specify via comprehensive plan/zoning map locations within the jurisdiction where the occupancy types or sizes are permissible, but not to completely redline them out of its borders. Beyond the hamfisted, shoddy planning policy abuse, it's even more creepy that it sounds like they're trying to provide cover for the obvious reason for their action -protectionism and anti-Wal Mart prejudice - by saying it's really an issue of dedicating too much land area to uses that do not generate sales taxes. It's just a slightly different version of the same justification for the breathtakingly stupid recent SCOTUS opinion regarding emminint domain. If this becomes a legitimate use of authority the government, what type of non-tax generating land use is going to be next? Stupid.
|
|
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
![]() |
|
| justme | Nov 29 2006, 10:52 AM Post #8 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
I agree. It's stupid. Not only are they shutting lower income families out of affording housing, now they don't even want to give them a place to shop. |
|
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
![]() |
|
| TomK | Nov 29 2006, 11:14 AM Post #9 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Oddly, I just came back from Wal-Mart--I got a renewal of my salt water fishing licence (going out for flounder tomorrow!) Anyway: Businesses should be allowed to do business any where they want. And if grown people (not kids with part time jobs,) get paid $5.50 an hour, they are looses and deserve what they get. |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Nov 29 2006, 11:27 AM Post #10 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
Mmm.. flounder... I don't like Wal-Mart, but I don'tlike mega-farming either. When the assembly line was put in place I am sure people did not like things not being done by hand, one unit at a time. Gunpowder no doubt scared the bejeesus out of many. Progress, such as it is, marches on. When people want walkable communities again, they will become reality. I will be looking for them. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| Daniel\ | Nov 29 2006, 08:11 PM Post #11 |
![]()
Fulla-Carp
|
They are not banning Wal Mart. They are limiting what it can do. Wal Mart got out of paying employees a "living wage" in Chicago. Maybe they will get out of being subjected to this city council too. |
|
| |
![]() |
|
| George K | Nov 29 2006, 08:46 PM Post #12 |
|
Finally
|
That's true, as far as it goes. However, companies like Cosi (a coffee shop at which my daughter worked (no dangling participle - that OK Quirt?)), payed $7.00 an hour last year. No one looked twice, even though she was not earning a "living wage." I find it astonishing that the "Big Box" stores can be restricted in this manner while companies that are not as big (like Barnes & Noble and Cosi) are subjected to the same regulations. |
|
A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
![]() |
|
| « Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic » |








4:39 PM Jul 10