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| piano advice from a dealer; Comments?? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 28 2006, 01:16 PM (1,037 Views) | |
| RosemaryTwo | Nov 28 2006, 01:16 PM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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At $10K you have a choice of a multitude of low grade pianos from China and Indonesia. Almost everything made by Dongbei, Young Chang, Pearl River, Sejung, Yamaha, Kawai and Samick. 5'3" and under fall into this category. These companies export about 50 brand names (many famous old American names like Howard, Sohmer, Weber, Kimball and Wurlitzer), but these 7 manufacturers comprise more than 98% of exports to the US. It would be almost impossible to find a piano in that price range not from one of the 7 sisters. Personally, I wouldn't want any of them, but if you're committed to that route, I recommend Costco. COM. Their piano at <$6K is as good as any of the rest and at least you can return it if you don't like it. The only pianos from China I will sell are Essex. Steinway has done a terrific job of controlling quality on this project, and there is no quality difference between the Pearl River and Young Chang pianos. There are size and furniture differences. You also have a choice of thousands of gray market Yamaha, Young Chang and Kawai pianos. Please see my web page for a discussion of gray market pianos. One of 5 pianos exported to the US from Japan and Korea is a used (gray market) piano. If you find a 15 to 30 year old piano with one of these names, it is probably gray market no matter what the seller tells you. I won't sell them and I won't take them on trade. It's not that they weren't once good pianos. It's that they are worn out and restoration doesn't make economic sense. That's why they are gray market pianos. Buying pianos from private parties is very tricky unless you really know your stuff. Dealers and Technicians tend to skim off the best prospects pretty quickly. Except for Steinways, I only find one or two pianos a year this way. So here is my recommendation; spend just a little more money and a whole world of really nice pianos become available. The best deal is never at the bottom of the market (or the top). I strongly encourage you to consider the Baldwin I have recommended to you previously. A new version of this piano would cost more than twice as much and wouldn't be as good. It is far superior to everything referred to in the first paragraph. Also, The Kawai RX2 is a big piano and it is just a little over your budget. Furthermore, consider that you will avoid sales tax by having me ship a piano to you. So there you have it. Two really good choices just a little over your budget. Even if you financed the difference, by the time you paid it off you would be very happy you got a quality piano instead of a budget piano and it would be unlikely you would ever trade unless you went to a Steinway. Me now -- when he refers to the Baldwin, it is an M series, 18 years old that he had painted black (was white). |
| "Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua | |
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| Jolly | Nov 28 2006, 01:19 PM Post #2 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Pure bullshiite, IMNSHO. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Larry | Nov 28 2006, 01:20 PM Post #3 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Too much bull sh!t to even wade through. Find another dealer. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Larry | Nov 28 2006, 01:21 PM Post #4 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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You couldn't pay me to consider this particular piano. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Mikhailoh | Nov 28 2006, 01:25 PM Post #5 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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"Furthermore, consider that you will avoid sales tax by having me ship a piano to you." Furthermore, I will gladly conspire with you to break the law in order to make a sale. So we know this person's character already. The 'knowledge' he has shared with you is, IMO, a load of hooey. Dongbei, Young Chang, Pearl River, Sejung, Yamaha, Kawai and Samick all make some nice pianos, and there is quite a quality continuum there. A repainted 18 year old Baldwin M... and how much does he want for this rare jewel? |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Larry | Nov 28 2006, 01:31 PM Post #6 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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I might put 500 bucks in it, if the pinblock is holding..... no more than that, though. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Jolly | Nov 28 2006, 01:35 PM Post #7 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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I don't mind M's too much, I think they've got more guts than most of the coffee table sized stuff. But I wouldn't want a repaint...Lord knows what else got twiddled with if they decided to go to that much trouble to get rid of it...I'm thinking that a nice 18-year-old M with a decent finish... 3-4kish, private sale? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| JBryan | Nov 28 2006, 01:37 PM Post #8 |
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I am the grey one
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That isn't a bad price for the RX2 if it is new. Too bad all the malarkey that came before it would have me disinclined to trust him. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| RosemaryTwo | Nov 28 2006, 01:44 PM Post #9 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yeah, that confirms the feelings I got from the information he kept giving me. He seems like a very nice man -- my parents stopped into his store and admittedly they know little to nothing about pianos, but they really liked him. I forget the exact figure on the Baldwin, around 14 -15K. Is it illegal to avoid sales tax when shipping? I didn't know that. I'm afraid that being a new piano buyer, I have a big, big target on my forehead. Armed with books, internet research, and informed friends (thank you all!), I shall avoid the darts aimed directly at me. I was toooooooooooo curious to hear everyone's reaction. Thanks for humoring my post. Onward with my patient quest..... I shall prevail. |
| "Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua | |
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| Kincaid | Nov 28 2006, 01:50 PM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Too bad, I was looking forward to you deconstructing this stuff. That's okay - you are a busy guy. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| big al | Nov 28 2006, 02:01 PM Post #11 |
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Bull-Carp
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Have you checked out any of the local dealers, Rosemary? I'm simply curious about a couple of them (not Trombino, I think I know enough about them already). I queried a piano teacher friend of mine over Thankgiving, but she was not much help. Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| RosemaryTwo | Nov 28 2006, 02:21 PM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Thanks, Big Al, for remembering my quest. I've been into Trombino, b/c they're so close to my house. I played everything they had. I knew more about the pianos than my salesman (the guy I got had been there, for "over a year now.") The place that used to be in Mt. Lebanon closed down. The next closest place is in Wexford (I think it's called Modern Piano). I plan to go out there on a weekend soon. In the yellow pages is Main St. Pianos in Carnegie; Noteworthy Music in Valencia; and Piano Forte in Ambridge. All on my list of places to visit. Seems like there are a lot of seamy characters in this industry.....
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| "Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua | |
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| apple | Nov 28 2006, 02:28 PM Post #13 |
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one of the angels
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"So here is my recommendation; spend just a little more money and a whole world of really nice pianos become available. The best deal is never at the bottom of the market (or the top). " that was a keeper. |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| George K | Nov 28 2006, 03:11 PM Post #14 |
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Finally
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Rosemary, I'll second the opinions of everyone else. However, let me add this. For a few dollars more than 8K or so (about 2K more) you move into a whole new class of instrument, both in terms of size and quality. Over the life of the piano/your ownership, the difference is negligible. Take a look at the Nordiskas (I played a few very nicely prepped Nordiskas) and found them quite satisfactory if well prepped. I'd avoid Costco, simply because there may not be dealer support should you have issues (though I know of one person who used to sell through Costco, and I'd trust that person). Your experience may vary, however. The RX2 is a nice piano (if with the newer action). |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| phykell | Nov 28 2006, 03:32 PM Post #15 |
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Senior Carp
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Tell him you know Larry, in fact tell any piano dealer you know Larry. That's all you have to say, "Larry".
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The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated. - Ghandhi Evil cannot be conquered in the world. It can only be resisted within oneself. Remember, bones heal and chicks dig scars | |
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| George K | Nov 28 2006, 03:59 PM Post #16 |
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Finally
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Worked for me....
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Kincaid | Nov 28 2006, 04:01 PM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Then hand the guy a towel to clean up the mess. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| OperaTenor | Nov 28 2006, 04:07 PM Post #18 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Not charging sales tax for out-of-state transactions is legal in most states. |
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| Mikhailoh | Nov 28 2006, 04:08 PM Post #19 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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"and Larry says if you sell me a PSO, he's gonna come up the holler and kick your weasel ass..." |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Mikhailoh | Nov 28 2006, 04:10 PM Post #20 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Not if it is done as a suggestion by the seller that the buyer avoid the tax that way, and that Rosemary does not pay the tax in her state. Will you get caught? Probably not. But is it legal? Nope. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| RosemaryTwo | Nov 28 2006, 07:37 PM Post #21 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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:lol: Got it. I feel like a little leaguer being coached to step up to the plate of my first game. I'm ready to start swingin'. Bring it on.
I agree. I've never seen dealers sell pianos through Costco here. I think that was a sales technique more than a sincere suggestion. I LOVE Costco, but more for Diet Cokes and soap. I'll keep my eye out for a Nordiska, that is a new suggestion for me. I'm going to practice, now, repeating, Larry, Larry, Larry. Got it. |
| "Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua | |
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| Jolly | Nov 28 2006, 08:00 PM Post #22 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Rosemary, You can always post up your search at PW, which is where most of us met. If you like Larry's style (some do, some don't - but he DOES know the biz), you can find him at his piano board: http://www.armleg.com/forum/viewforum.php?...forum=pianosinc Lastly, I am the Nordiska guy. Therefore, I am biased. But at the 10K (or less) level, there are very few pianos that can compete with the Dongbei product. Perhaps the Samick Indonesian stuff, and that's about it. Just don't get under 5'5" in a grand... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| David Burton | Nov 28 2006, 08:09 PM Post #23 |
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Senior Carp
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If this guy tells you look elsewhere, I'd look elsewhere. |
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| George K | Nov 28 2006, 10:24 PM Post #24 |
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Finally
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Seems she's already found the place. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| RosemaryTwo | Nov 29 2006, 02:44 AM Post #25 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yes, I already did find the place, and I post there, too to get feedback on specific information and offers that I get from dealers. This last post came as an e-mail, and I wasn't sure what dealers read what forums, so I decided to put the whole text of the e-mail here. I'm more discreet on other forums. Why is that? |
| "Perhaps the thing to do is just to let stupid run its course." Aqua | |
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4:39 PM Jul 10