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Separation in Britian?
Topic Started: Nov 27 2006, 05:20 AM (945 Views)
John D'Oh
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MAMIL
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 03:46 PM
As I said.--Irish Tiger--in the south, British Turkey in the north.

All you need is cash. People will their pocketbook.

You clearly don't understand. Religious bigotry isn't easily paid off.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 04:50 PM
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 03:46 PM
As I said.--Irish Tiger--in the south, British Turkey in the north.

All you need is cash.  People will their pocketbook.

You clearly don't understand. Religious bigotry isn't easily paid off.

No: Ireland should work out their troubles on their own.

England is not and never has been any help to Ireland. England slaughter the Irish with Essex and Cromwell and starved them to death by the millions in the late 19th century. There's no reason for the Irish to trust them now, is there?
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 03:59 PM
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 04:50 PM
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 03:46 PM
As I said.--Irish Tiger--in the south, British Turkey in the north.

All you need is cash.  People will their pocketbook.

You clearly don't understand. Religious bigotry isn't easily paid off.

No: Ireland should work out their troubles on their own.

England is not and never has been any help to Ireland. England slaughter the Irish with Essex and Cromwell and starved them to death by the millions in the late 19th century. There's no reason for the Irish to trust them now, is there?

The people in Northern Ireland want to remain British. I think if you were to ask them they'd tell you to mind your own business. Based on the people from Belfast I've spoken to, they'd probably use other more decorative words as well.

To be perfectly honest, America hasn't been a great deal of help over the last 40 years with regard to the Irish problems. Much of the money used to blow people up, shoot people's knee-caps off and murder countless innocents has come from the US. You've been fighting in the war against terrorism for years, it's just that you only recently figured out which side you should be on.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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phykell
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Senior Carp
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 08:59 PM
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 04:50 PM
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 03:46 PM
As I said.--Irish Tiger--in the south, British Turkey in the north.

All you need is cash.  People will their pocketbook.

You clearly don't understand. Religious bigotry isn't easily paid off.

No: Ireland should work out their troubles on their own.

England is not and never has been any help to Ireland. England slaughter the Irish with Essex and Cromwell and starved them to death by the millions in the late 19th century. There's no reason for the Irish to trust them now, is there?

It's not about Britain vs Ireland, it's about Catholics vs Prostestants.

Regarding what John said about sides, you do realise that during the 2nd world war, Ireland remained "neutral" even despite the Luftwaffe bombing Belfast - so much for wanting a united Ireland eh? Hey, who knows, if the Irish had allied with the British during WWII perhaps many American (and British) lives would have been saved and IIRC Poland being invaded wasn't enough to make Ireland baulk at Hitler's progress across Europe. I've not got anything against the Irish of course, hey I'm 25% Irish, what I'm saying is that it's much more complex than "just letting them sort it out on their own". A lot has happened in the last several hundred years but blaming the UK for events that occurred hundreds of years makes no sense at all.

Personally, I'd prefer our soldiers to be safe at home but there's something we simply can't escape, something called responsibility. There are people there who wish to remain British, Prostestants and Catholics as it happens, there is no simple or justified way of leaving them is there? It's a conundrum.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated. - Ghandhi

Evil cannot be conquered in the world. It can only be resisted within oneself.

Remember, bones heal and chicks dig scars
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 05:11 PM

The people in Northern Ireland want to remain British. I think if you were to ask them they'd tell you to mind your own business. Based on the people from Belfast I've spoken to, they'd probably use other more decorative words as well.


Yes true.

As the Blacks in South Africa ( British ever been there?) had to work our their problems or the Blacks in the American South. Yea. Big deal.
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John D'Oh
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TomK
Nov 27 2006, 04:27 PM
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 05:11 PM

The people in Northern Ireland want to remain British. I think if you were to ask them they'd tell you to mind your own business. Based on the people from Belfast I've spoken to, they'd probably use other more decorative words as well.


Yes true.

As the Blacks in South Africa ( British ever been there?) had to work our their problems or the Blacks in the American South. Yea. Big deal.

Forcing people to do something they don't want to do is unlikely to end well.

Your solution is rather akin to the American defeat victory and magnificent strategic withdrawal from South Vietnam. How did that end up?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 05:34 PM
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 04:27 PM
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 05:11 PM

The people in Northern Ireland want to remain British. I think if you were to ask them they'd tell you to mind your own business. Based on the people from Belfast I've spoken to, they'd probably use other more decorative words as well.


Yes true.

As the Blacks in South Africa ( British ever been there?) had to work our their problems or the Blacks in the American South. Yea. Big deal.

Forcing people to do something they don't want to do is unlikely to end well.

Your solution is rather akin to the American defeat victory and magnificent strategic withdrawal from South Vietnam. How did that end up?

I'd like to think it's more akin to the freeing of the Blacks in in the South in the USA in the '60's.

Let my people go, John.

Let my people go.
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phykell
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Senior Carp
Tom they are not all your people. They are not all one people. They do not all want a unified Ireland. Many people in Northern Ireland are fiercely proud of being British. What do you propose should happen to them?

Hint: the difficulty of the question reflects the difficulty of the problem.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated. - Ghandhi

Evil cannot be conquered in the world. It can only be resisted within oneself.

Remember, bones heal and chicks dig scars
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 03:38 PM
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 05:34 PM
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 04:27 PM
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 05:11 PM

The people in Northern Ireland want to remain British. I think if you were to ask them they'd tell you to mind your own business. Based on the people from Belfast I've spoken to, they'd probably use other more decorative words as well.


Yes true.

As the Blacks in South Africa ( British ever been there?) had to work our their problems or the Blacks in the American South. Yea. Big deal.

Forcing people to do something they don't want to do is unlikely to end well.

Your solution is rather akin to the American defeat victory and magnificent strategic withdrawal from South Vietnam. How did that end up?

I'd like to think it's more akin to the freeing of the Blacks in in the South in the USA in the '60's.

Let my people go, John.

Let my people go.

Ok, but you're Polish... :shrug:
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Actually last time I was in Warsaw, there were an awful lot of Irish businessmen there exploiting the newly liberated Poles.
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
phykell
Nov 27 2006, 05:46 PM
Tom they are not all your people. They are not all one people. They do not all want a unified Ireland. Many people in Northern Ireland are fiercely proud of being British. What do you propose should happen to them?

Hint: the difficulty of the question reflects the difficulty of the problem.

I own a house and land in County Roscommom in Belaugh on the lake.

From what I understand the people there don't like the English all too much. My wife is 1/4 Irisah and we have a stake in their welfare,
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phykell
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Senior Carp
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 10:05 PM
I own a house and land in County Roscommom in Belaugh on the lake.

From what I understand the people there don't like the English all too much. My wife is 1/4 Irisah and we have a stake in their welfare,

I'm one quarter Irish too and I've lived through IRA bombings on civilian targets. It seems that some Irish people have staked a claim in my welfare too, just because I'm British.

Nevertheless, my question stands, if we were to adopt your theory, what happens to the people who want to stay British?
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated. - Ghandhi

Evil cannot be conquered in the world. It can only be resisted within oneself.

Remember, bones heal and chicks dig scars
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 05:05 PM
I own a house and land in County Roscommom in Belaugh on the lake.

Which is in Eire. This discussion is about N. Ireland. They are different countries, in much the same way that Canada is separate from the United States.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 06:17 PM
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 05:05 PM
I own a house and land in County Roscommom in Belaugh on the lake.

Which is in Eire. This discussion is about N. Ireland. They are different countries, in much the same way that Canada is separate from the United States.

Nope, it's one country.

Give Ireland back to the Irish
Make Ireland Irish today.
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Moonbat
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Pisa-Carp
How are you defining "country"?
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Moonbat
Nov 27 2006, 06:25 PM
How are you defining "country"?

One landmass, one island, one stake in a common future.
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Moonbat
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Pisa-Carp
I'm not sure what "one stake in a common future" means but surely one landmass/island would make the US/Canada one country or all of Europe one country, mean Hawai was a separate country, the isle of White a country, etc. etc.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Moonbat
Nov 27 2006, 02:33 PM
I'm not sure what "one stake in a common future" means but surely one landmass/island would make the US/Canada one country....

Canadians will not under any circumstances willingly go down that muddy road to perdition.
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phykell
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Senior Carp
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 10:19 PM
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 06:17 PM
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 05:05 PM
I own a house and land in County Roscommom in Belaugh on the lake.

Which is in Eire. This discussion is about N. Ireland. They are different countries, in much the same way that Canada is separate from the United States.

Nope, it's one country.

Give Ireland back to the Irish
Make Ireland Irish today.

You don't seem to understand that there are many people in Northern Ireland who consider themselves as being from Northern Ireland and being British. Try telling them what you've told us and see how far you get.

My question still stands, what would you do with the people in Northern Ireland who want to remain British?
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated. - Ghandhi

Evil cannot be conquered in the world. It can only be resisted within oneself.

Remember, bones heal and chicks dig scars
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
phykell
Nov 27 2006, 06:40 PM
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 10:19 PM
John D'Oh
Nov 27 2006, 06:17 PM
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 05:05 PM
I own a house and land in County Roscommom in Belaugh on the lake.

Which is in Eire. This discussion is about N. Ireland. They are different countries, in much the same way that Canada is separate from the United States.

Nope, it's one country.

Give Ireland back to the Irish
Make Ireland Irish today.

You don't seem to understand that there are many people in Northern Ireland who consider themselves as being from Northern Ireland and being British. Try telling them what you've told us and see how far you get.

My question still stands, what would you do with the people in Northern Ireland who want to remain British?

What did we do with the people in Africa that thought that Blacks were second rate people?

Move or change.
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phykell
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 10:46 PM
What did we do with the people in Africa that thought that Blacks were second rate people?

Move or change.

WIll you tell them to move?

Should we force them to move?

If not you, then who else has the right to tell them to move?

Should we allow other to force them to move?

Where will they move to?

What nationality will they be?

Who will pay for their land and livelihoods lost due to the move?

What about the fact that your "method" requires that families, friends and neighbours are split up from each other?

It isn't a black and white issue, it's actually a very muddy grey one.

Incidentally, this isn't about some people considering others as second class people. It's about nationality and practicing their religion the way they wish to.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated. - Ghandhi

Evil cannot be conquered in the world. It can only be resisted within oneself.

Remember, bones heal and chicks dig scars
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 05:46 PM

What did we do with the people in Africa that thought that Blacks were second rate people?

Move or change.

Why should they be forced out of their own country? So much for 'set my people free' and other Hollywood dialogue. The people who live in Northern Ireland should be allowed to determine their own fate. They should not have it dictated to them by London, Dublin, Washington or even by Teddy 'mine's a large one' Kennedy. That's what freedom means.

The vast majority of English people would be more than happy for Ulster to become one with Eire. We have spent a whole shedload of money on the province, money which is finally beginning to bear fruit. It's an ironic thing to say, but the best thing that ever happened to Northern Ireland was quite possibly September 11. People are sick of terrorism.

The reason that you'd heard the protestant Northern Irish don't particularly like the English is because they think, in their words, that we are going to betray them. The Catholic Northern Irish feel that we already have. Personally, I'd love to live in Eire, it's a wonderful country. We shouldn't force people who feel otherwise to do so.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 02:46 PM
What did we do with the people in Africa that thought that Blacks were second rate people?


*You*, the USA, did very little, and along with Maggie Thatcher actually went out of your way to perpetuate the brutal charade called Apartheid for as long as possible.

We, Canada and much of the rest of world, actually did do something to bring about the demise of Apartheid.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
AlbertaCrude
Nov 27 2006, 08:07 PM
TomK
Nov 27 2006, 02:46 PM
What did we do with the people in Africa that thought that Blacks were second rate people?


*You*, the USA, did very little, and along with Maggie Thatcher actually went out of your way to perpetuate the brutal charade called Apartheid for as long as possible.

We, Canada and much of the rest of world, actually did do something to bring about the demise of Apartheid.

....and were accused of being naive liberals for your troubles, if memory serves. The blessed Margaret made much of sanctions 'not working', whilst at the same time boycotting the Moscow Olympics, since as we all know refusing people the right to run around in circles is the best possible way of undermining tyranny, particularly if one's husband isn't selling buying diamonds from them.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Ah yes the Moscow Olympic boycott! Even Pierre caved in on that folly.

The world ought to have thanked Brezhnev and Suslov for trying to bring civilization to the tribes of Afghanistan and creating a military forward base from which to head off the Islamic Republic of Iran.
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