Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Poor John Is Dead
Topic Started: Nov 10 2006, 12:41 PM (210 Views)
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Well, we can hope so, anyway.

But it looks as if Lincoln Chaffee is willing to drive a stake through his heart.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/10/bol...ress/index.html
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
QuirtEvans
Nov 10 2006, 02:41 PM
Well, we can hope so, anyway.

But it looks as if Lincoln Chaffee is willing to drive a stake through his heart.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/10/bol...ress/index.html

Lincoln wasn't going to vote for him anyway, so BFD.

Bolton has been the ambassador for awhile now...can anybody point to poor job performance on his part?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
Too bad. He is good in the post. There is no good reason not to confirm him.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Luke's Dad
Member Avatar
Emperor Pengin
Quote:
 
The American people have spoken out against the president's agenda on a number of fronts, and presumably one of those is on foreign policy," the Rhode Island moderate told The Associated Press.


So you throw the baby out with the bathwater?

I think somebody's a little miffed at the President.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Jolly
Nov 10 2006, 03:43 PM
QuirtEvans
Nov 10 2006, 02:41 PM
Well, we can hope so, anyway.

But it looks as if Lincoln Chaffee is willing to drive a stake through his heart.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/10/bol...ress/index.html

Lincoln wasn't going to vote for him anyway, so BFD.

Bolton has been the ambassador for awhile now...can anybody point to poor job performance on his part?

Apparently, you missed the article's main point. If Chaffee votes "no", he doesn't get a positive vote from the Committee. Without a positive vote from the Committee, they are suggesting he doesn't get a floor vote.

Are they right about that, as a procedural matter? Generally, yes. You need Committee approval to get a vote on the floor. But I'm not familiar enough with arcane Senate rules to be able to tell you whether there's an exception that would let Bill Frist bring it to a floor vote without the nomination being approved in Committee.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
with Senator Lincoln Chafee’s announcement Thursday that he would deny Republicans on the committee the last vote needed to send Mr. Bolton’s nomination to the full Senate, some administration officials privately acknowledge that Mr. Bolton’s chances of getting Senate confirmation are “nil,” one State Department official said. “We know it’s not going to happen.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/10/washingt...r=1&oref=slogin

In fact, it's reported that the White House is exploring other ways to keep him on the job, since they recognize that, without Chaffee's support, he can't get confirmed.

Still a BFD, Jolly?
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
He can be reappointed by another recess appointment but he has to work without pay because it is his second recess appointment.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Yes, the article said that. It also said this:

Quote:
 
Such a move would almost certainly inflame relations between the White House and ascendant Democrats, and might kill any further talk about bipartisan cooperation. “It looks like an act out of Cirque du Soleil,” said Senator Christopher Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee. He likened the proposed maneuver to “a vision of a contortionist.”
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
QuirtEvans
Nov 10 2006, 03:13 PM
Quote:
 
with Senator Lincoln Chafee’s announcement Thursday that he would deny Republicans on the committee the last vote needed to send Mr. Bolton’s nomination to the full Senate, some administration officials privately acknowledge that Mr. Bolton’s chances of getting Senate confirmation are “nil,” one State Department official said. “We know it’s not going to happen.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/10/washingt...r=1&oref=slogin

In fact, it's reported that the White House is exploring other ways to keep him on the job, since they recognize that, without Chaffee's support, he can't get confirmed.

Still a BFD, Jolly?

Nope.

As I said, Chaffee wasn't going to vote for him anyway, therefore he doesn't make it out of committee anyway, therefore he gets no floor vote anyway.

It's essentially a wail in the wilderness, an idle quip from somebody who wasn't ever going to vote for the man.

Chaffee has just become perhaps the last dinosaur - the liberal Rockefeller Republican, the quintessential RINO. And his end time is fast approaching.

Again, BFD.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I heard on NPR today they are looking at some other kind of appointment like special envoy to the UN or something so he copuld continue to get paid and still do the job.

What a stupid argument. The President ought to be able to pick who he/she wants within reason, meaning intelligent, capable, not a convicted felon, etc.



Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Mikhailoh
Nov 10 2006, 07:10 PM
I heard on NPR today they are looking at some other kind of appointment like special envoy to the UN or something so he copuld continue to get paid and still do the job.

What a stupid argument. The President ought to be able to pick who he/she wants within reason, meaning intelligent, capable, not a convicted felon, etc.

Thereby gutting the Constitutional role for the Senate in approving nominees.

You may not like how the Senate chooses to exercise its power, but they may not like how you choose to spend your money ... the point is, it's their power, they get to exercise it as they like.

Some of you really don't like the Constitution, do you?
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Nov 10 2006, 07:10 PM
I heard on NPR today they are looking at some other kind of appointment like special envoy to the UN or something so he copuld continue to get paid and still do the job.

What a stupid argument. The President ought to be able to pick who he/she wants within reason, meaning intelligent, capable, not a convicted felon, etc.

Wouldn't that be more in the line of a dictator? Whoever heard of a lame-duck dictator?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!

A recess appointment is designed to be a short term solution -- the duration of the Senate's next term.

It makes no sense for any ambassadorial appointment (to a major nation), SCOTUS, etc
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
John D'Oh
Nov 10 2006, 05:51 PM
Mikhailoh
Nov 10 2006, 07:10 PM
I heard on NPR today they are looking at some other kind of appointment like special envoy to the UN or something so he copuld continue to get paid and still do the job.

What a stupid argument. The President ought to be able to pick who he/she wants within reason, meaning intelligent, capable, not a convicted felon, etc.

Wouldn't that be more in the line of a dictator? Whoever heard of a lame-duck dictator?

It is worth revisiting Federalist No 76, which states
Quote:
 
But might not his nomination be overruled? I grant it might, yet this could only be to make place for another nomination by himself. The person ultimately appointed must be the object of his preference, though perhaps not in the first degree. It is also not very probable that his nomination would often be overruled. The Senate could not be tempted, by the preference they might feel to another, to reject the one proposed; because they could not assure themselves, that the person they might wish would be brought forward by a second or by any subsequent nomination. They could not even be certain, that a future nomination would present a candidate in any degree more acceptable to them; and as their dissent might cast a kind of stigma upon the individual rejected, and might have the appearance of a reflection upon the judgment of the chief magistrate, it is not likely that their sanction would often be refused, where there were not special and strong reasons for the refusal.

To what purpose then require the co-operation of the Senate? I answer, that the necessity of their concurrence would have a powerful, though, in general, a silent operation. It would be an excellent check upon a spirit of favoritism in the President, and would tend greatly to prevent the appointment of unfit characters from State prejudice, from family connection, from personal attachment, or from a view to popularity. In addition to this, it would be an efficacious source of stability in the administration.


So in the minds of the founding fathers, at least Publius, advice and consent is more in the manner of due diligence than an occassion for political opportunism.

But Hamilton never envisaged the Borking that the Dems do today. Back then they were statesmen, not politicians.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
Refusing to confirm Bolton when there is not a single defensible reason for it is frivolous and petty. Although they do have the power to do so it is an abuse of that power.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
QuirtEvans
Nov 10 2006, 06:32 PM
Mikhailoh
Nov 10 2006, 07:10 PM
I heard on NPR today they are looking at some other kind of appointment like special envoy to the UN or something so he copuld continue to get paid and still do the job.

What a stupid argument. The President ought to be able to pick who he/she wants within reason, meaning intelligent, capable, not a convicted felon, etc.

Thereby gutting the Constitutional role for the Senate in approving nominees.

You may not like how the Senate chooses to exercise its power, but they may not like how you choose to spend your money ... the point is, it's their power, they get to exercise it as they like.

Some of you really don't like the Constitution, do you?

Some of us like it in the manner it was meant to be enforced.


Absent an inability to do the job, or an injection of extreme politics, why should Bolton not be given the job?

Because the majority doesn't "like" him?

Somebody mentioned the verb "bork". It was a sad day when that word was added to the lexicon...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
ivorythumper
Nov 10 2006, 08:18 PM
But Hamilton never envisaged the Borking that the Dems do today. Back then they were statesmen, not politicians.

It's not just the Democrats. The problem is systemic, and is abused by all.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
What they did to John Bolton goes beyond "Borking". There is not even the most feeble of justifications for rejecting him. No attempt at all to create even the facade of "advise and consent". Just, "No".
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dave Spelvin
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
Chaffee has just become perhaps the last dinosaur - the liberal Rockefeller Republican, the quintessential RINO. And his end time is fast approaching.

Are you saying that all moderate Republicans are finished as Republicans? Great news for us. Remember how Reagan had his big tent, or whatever it was called? If you don't have Lincoln Chafee and others like him, you've got no chance for a majority.

Works for me.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
The Democrats are the ones doing the "big tent" now with all their new blue dogs. Still works for you?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dave Spelvin
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
There is not even the most feeble of justifications for rejecting him.

You are wrong. There are several and they sound good to me. First, he's too blunt to be a successful diplomat. Certainly a matter of taste, but the Senate doesn't have any rules that I'm aware of to guide it in determining the breadth of "advise and consent". If they think he'd make a lousy diplomat, they can scotch the nomination. Second, he has been accused of making several big lies that without confidential information cannot be proved. Nevertheless, people who know, like Henry Waxman, don't trust him:

Quote:
 
Critics allege Bolton tried to spin intelligence to support his views and political objectives on a number of occasions. Greg Thielmann, of the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), was assigned as the daily intelligence liaison to Bolton. Thielmann stated to Seymour Hersh that, "Bolton seemed troubled because INR was not telling him what he wanted to hear ... I was intercepted at the door of his office and told, 'The Undersecretary doesn't need you to attend this meeting anymore.'" According to current and former coworkers, Bolton withheld information that ran counter to his goals from Secretary of State Colin Powell on multiple occasions, and from Powell's successor Condoleezza Rice on at least one occasion.


You may not like these reasons, JB, but they aren't feeble if they're true. Maybe you think that everybody's made up a bunch of lies about Bolton. Maybe we'll never know.

Wiki
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dave Spelvin
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
JBryan
Nov 10 2006, 08:20 PM
The Democrats are the ones doing the "big tent" now with all their new blue dogs. Still works for you?

If it keeps the radical right out of power, it works for me.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply