Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
We have already lost the War in Iraq; Let's Boggie!
Topic Started: Nov 8 2006, 06:59 PM (500 Views)
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Let's leave.
Just leave.

No matter how long we stay, or what we do, or how many of our kids get killed, nothing will get any better.

They want us out.
Let's just go - Tomorrow.

How many are we losing?
1000 kids a month?
That's 33 a day.
If we wait till Friday another 33 of our young will die.

We could make up some "Peace With Honor" stuff, just like in Viet Nam, or something nice like that.
Rove is a great spinner.
He could come up with something - but let's do it today while he still has a job.

Write a letter to Congress.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Ya know, Kenny -- I am inclined to agree with you. The will of the people has been crushed by the cooperation of the liberals main stream media with the Islamofascists, as the recent elections demonstrate. If the vote yesterday was truly against the Reps and Bush, then there is little point in continuing... I think a political mandate is more than just doing what one wants and claiming the people support it. It is now completely clear that the Americans have no stomach for defending ourselves or waging a war that could be successful and in our long term self interest.

As a heterosexual I suspect I will fare much better under shari'a than you -- heck, I could even get another wife or two if MS wouldn't kill me -- but I do fear far more for your community.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
You got a hybrid now, so you are a girly-man.

You're gonna get your weewee hacked off too boy!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ben
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
Leaving tomorrow is not a good idea. It only seems like one until you think of the tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of human beings just like yourself who would be killed in the ensuing chaos. However, leaving ASAP, reasonably possible anyways, that is, keeping the country from falling into all-out civil war, is a good idea.
- Ben

"Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington

bennieloohoo@gmail.com
Or you can just PM me. :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Ben
Nov 8 2006, 07:13 PM
Leaving tomorrow is not a good idea. It only seems like one until you think of the tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of human beings just like yourself who would be killed in the ensuing chaos. However, leaving ASAP, reasonably possible anyways, that is, keeping the country from falling into all-out civil war, is a good idea.

Too bad.
They are going to die anyway.
That is the fault of the A-hole who started this unsolvable problem.
Just leave - get it over with.

There is NO good exit plan.
The whole thing was a mistake.
There IS no solution.

With a government change *this* is a magic moment.


We are just idiots now, trapped, as we hold a finger in a hole in the Dam.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
Nov 8 2006, 06:59 PM
How many are we loosing?
1000 kids a month?
That's 33 a day.
If we wait till Friday another 33 of our young will die.

This is always the first issue brought up by those who oppose the war, but it's pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Not only is the total bodycount very low but the all-volunteer army is paid very well (all things considered) to do what they do, and risk is very much part of their job. Not to mention the fact that my risk of dying in a car crash is in the same ballpark as an armed forces member's risk of dying in iraq.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ben
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
kenny
Nov 8 2006, 10:16 PM
Ben
Nov 8 2006, 07:13 PM
Leaving tomorrow is not a good idea. It only seems like one until you think of the tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of human beings just like yourself who would be killed in the ensuing chaos. However, leaving ASAP, reasonably possible anyways, that is, keeping the country from falling into all-out civil war, is a good idea.

Too bad.
They are going to die anyway.
That is the fault of the A-hole who started this unsolvable problem.
Just leave - get it over with.

There is NO good exit plan.
The whole thing was a mistake.
There IS no solution.

With a government change *this* is a magic moment.


We are just idiots now, trapped, as we hold a finger in a hole in the Dam.

I must respectfully disagree. I think in the end (not any time soon, maybe even after your generation is gone) we will be pulling our troops out of not only Iraq but also Iran and possibly more countries, having taken enormous losses and having eliminated for the most part the threat of radical Islam. What's sad is that it's all because "this man tried to kill my daddy."
- Ben

"Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington

bennieloohoo@gmail.com
Or you can just PM me. :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Luke's Dad
Member Avatar
Emperor Pengin
I was fine all day. Now I'm starting to get pissed.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Ben
Nov 8 2006, 08:31 PM

I must respectfully disagree. I think in the end (not any time soon, maybe even after your generation is gone) we will be pulling our troops out of not only Iraq but also Iran and possibly more countries, having taken enormous losses and having eliminated for the most part the threat of radical Islam.

Nah -- the will of the American people to prosecute a long term strategy against Islamofascism has been crushed by the liberal MSM -- the vote shows that.

Quote:
 

What's sad is that it's all because "this man tried to kill my daddy."

We've been through casus belli too many times to revisit. However, I am shocked that you really do believe what you wrote.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
kenny
Nov 8 2006, 09:16 PM
Ben
Nov 8 2006, 07:13 PM
Leaving tomorrow is not a good idea. It only seems like one until you think of the tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of human beings just like yourself who would be killed in the ensuing chaos. However, leaving ASAP, reasonably possible anyways, that is, keeping the country from falling into all-out civil war, is a good idea.

Too bad.
They are going to die anyway.
That is the fault of the A-hole who started this unsolvable problem.
Just leave - get it over with.

There is NO good exit plan.
The whole thing was a mistake.
There IS no solution.

With a government change *this* is a magic moment.


We are just idiots now, trapped, as we hold a finger in a hole in the Dam.

No solution?

Heck, just invite the terrorists over for some crackers and cheese...reason with them, be friendly.

It's all just a big misunderstanding, you know. They want us to die, and we disagree.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
:lol:

Maybe they'll agree to stop trying to kill us if we just give them nukes. It's only fair since we have them.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Improviso
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Nov 8 2006, 10:40 PM
Heck, just invite the terrorists over for some crackers and cheese...reason with them, be friendly.

Invite them Jolly? They'll be here of their own accord shortly. They were just handed the equivalent of the jackpot in the MegaBall lottery. Watch as the violence around the world increases in the coming weeks.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Luke's Dad
Member Avatar
Emperor Pengin
Am I crazy to believe that if any foreign leader tries to assasinate a former President, that the entire nation should be supportive of removing said leader from power, forcefully and quickly? Hell, we should have ripped up the ceasefire then and gone in. I would feel the same if it was the Count of Monte Cristo, himself, Slick Willie.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
David Burton
Senior Carp
No, I beg to disagree with all of you, and some of you may take what I’m about to say as tongue in cheek as you please. I will if you don’t, ok?

The Iraq war was first and foremost a private matter between monarchs, except we don’t see them as such anymore. The disguise? Well it’s been in place for at least 100 years. Why don’t some of you do yourselves a favor and at least try and read Carroll Quigley (I know he’s long) or Antony Sutton, they knew the truth. Better try and get their material quick, especially Sutton’s because a lot of it is out of print and very expensive now. There are people who don’t really appreciate the curtains being pulled to reveal those who are string pullers on the catwalks above the theatre we call politics. Oh well.

Mission accomplished. Saddam has been deposed, found, and has been duly sentenced for his crimes and if not assassinated first will either die like the rat he is or escape to live out the rest of his life in some place like – the south of France, home to so many deposed dictators. How civilized.

The aftermath – the war that has taken too long was to prove only one thing; that the Iraqis do not deserve democracy. Oh and make absolutely no mistake about it, America lost the Korean war, there is no stalemate, only victory or defeat, and we lost the Vietnam War too, why not make it a perfect trifecta? Why do I say we were defeated? Because the GD politicians and their lily assed sanctimoniousness about being humane had to get in the way – as it always does. They all deserve to be spun on a spit.

Clearly the Iraqis, heck all the rest of them for that matter, don’t deserve democracy. They are as TE Lawrence called them, “a silly people” who behave worse than children.

Very well then, let us withdraw, and tomorrow, as the voters have decreed.
Let our pals the Brits go home too, it’s all over lads. Let the place go up in smoke. Who cares? 100,000 lives? 1,000,000 lives? Who cares? We can’t save them from the insanity that runs their minds and the jabbering religionists who spout their hate. Let us abandon them to their fate. It was foolish to imagine it any other way.

And the next 9/11 style terrorist attack against the West anywhere, and we take out a whole city – no a whole country, why not? We can after all, and if the “humanists” decide that’s the best thing to do, as they did in Yugoslavia, etc. more people will believe the miserable wretches deserved it.

And Rumsfeld was an idiot after all, wasn’t he? How indeed could such a small force possibly do what was required? Our biggest mistake was that we never did kill enough of them to get them to respect us. So let’s get the hell out. Now.

Then let the Israelis do what they have planned to do anyway, by 2009 at the latest, if they don’t start before that, the beginning of the plague years, the Arab disease. Never again means never again. Got it?

We certainly wont need any Mideast oil by then. The venal and inglorious Europeans who hate themselves, don’t give a damn about their great but boring culture, and want to be taken over by the Islamicists can jolly well bake in their own slime. We’ll have plenty of our own oil, from Canada, from the American shale fields, from the Gulf of Mexico. Haven’t you heard about the grand plan to merge all three North American countries and call it the North American Union? It’s so easy, hire an idiot president to do everything he’s told to run down the dollar and bankrupt the country while the Canadians run a surplus, plug the Mexicans in for cheap labor and BINGO. And it can all still be controlled from London, the mother country. Ducky. We can shut this continent off from the rest of the world, produce our own food, anything else we want, even pianos, LOL.

Let the whole rest of the world go to hell. Then after a fifth of the human race has finally been eliminated, and better stock, like the Chinese, have been resettled on the arid wastes that used to be gardens until these rabid scum took over a thousand years ago, because they never believed in bothering to tend even a tree, we can finally get on with the civilization of the Earth, the New World Order, etc.

It’s all running just according to plan, isn’t it?
Hillary looks good too, bless her.
Think there will be any cat fights between Hil and Nancy?
Stay tuned.

… be seeing you.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ben
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
Luke's Dad
Nov 8 2006, 10:48 PM
Am I crazy to believe that if any foreign leader tries to assasinate a former President, that the entire nation should be supportive of removing said leader from power, forcefully and quickly? Hell, we should have ripped up the ceasefire then and gone in. I would feel the same if it was the Count of Monte Cristo, himself, Slick Willie.

You are failing to understand the larger picture. What George H W Bush understood that his son didn't (or at least ignored) was that "regime change" in Iraq would leave Iran in too powerful of a position. Look where we are now.
- Ben

"Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington

bennieloohoo@gmail.com
Or you can just PM me. :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
Ben
Nov 8 2006, 11:24 PM
You are failing to understand the larger picture. What George H W Bush understood that his son didn't (or at least ignored) was that "regime change" in Iraq would leave Iran in too powerful of a position. Look where we are now.

You are failing to see the larger picture. The war started in 1979, when the Iranians invaded US territory. No president has had the cojones to stand up to that. That war is lost as well.

I fear for my children and for you. I shall be dead when it matters.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ben
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
ivorythumper
Nov 8 2006, 10:37 PM
Ben
Nov 8 2006, 08:31 PM

I must respectfully disagree. I think in the end (not any time soon, maybe even after your generation is gone) we will be pulling our troops out of not only Iraq but also Iran and possibly more countries, having taken enormous losses and having eliminated for the most part the threat of radical Islam.

Nah -- the will of the American people to prosecute a long term strategy against Islamofascism has been crushed by the liberal MSM -- the vote shows that.

Quote:
 

What's sad is that it's all because "this man tried to kill my daddy."

We've been through casus belli too many times to revisit. However, I am shocked that you really do believe what you wrote.

Well I will let the first tongue-in-cheek bit go.

Obviously the war was not simply about revenge. I did not intend for my comment to be read this way because if taken literally such a statement is obviously false but in hindsight maybe this was not a good plan :shrug: Like many historical wars there were many causes of the Iraq war. We're studying the Puritan Revolution in England right now, for example. I do believe this was a small, underlying cause in the subconscious if not the conscious collective mind of the Bush administration. It has been established that from Day 1 of Bush's first term Bush and Cheney wanted to invade Iraq.
- Ben

"Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington

bennieloohoo@gmail.com
Or you can just PM me. :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
This thread is a classic example of why giving democrats any power is a dangerous thing. Kenny means well, but he is so dangerously wrong that it is mind boggling. And his type of logic will increasingly be heard now that the idiots running the democrat party dig in.

A couple of other examples: Some are already running around talking about putting a 3 dollar per gallon tax on gasoline to fund alternative energy research.

What is it about the disease of liberalism that leaves you lefties so irrational and short sighted?

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
David Burton
Senior Carp
The biggest piece of liberalism's disease is their social idealism; that all they need do is enact a bunch of legislation and enforce it with the force of the law enforcement at their control and we can have a wonderful, happy society.

And so what if what they do causes untold misery? At least they cared?

At least Hillary Clinton isn’t quite that stupid and neither was Bill.

Do any of you on the left have any idea of the HATE that exists out there for your meddling in affairs that you do not understand, cannot change, cannot control, etc.?

We are only civilized for the moment that civilization itself may break apart and we would be at each other’s throats – like in IRAQ. OK?

I am somewhat relieved that there hasn’t been more gloating here. It makes me nervous when righties do it, it nauseates me to hear lefties do it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ben
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
The gloating that there was nauseated me - as someone who wanted the Dems to win. I hate to say it's immature or childish because coming from a fifteen year old it sounds ridiculous, but it is.
- Ben

"Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington

bennieloohoo@gmail.com
Or you can just PM me. :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Ben
Nov 8 2006, 09:29 PM
ivorythumper
Nov 8 2006, 10:37 PM
Ben
Nov 8 2006, 08:31 PM

I must respectfully disagree. I think in the end (not any time soon, maybe even after your generation is gone) we will be pulling our troops out of not only Iraq but also Iran and possibly more countries, having taken enormous losses and having eliminated for the most part the threat of radical Islam.

Nah -- the will of the American people to prosecute a long term strategy against Islamofascism has been crushed by the liberal MSM -- the vote shows that.

Quote:
 

What's sad is that it's all because "this man tried to kill my daddy."

We've been through casus belli too many times to revisit. However, I am shocked that you really do believe what you wrote.

Well I will let the first tongue-in-cheek bit go.

It's not tongue in cheek.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Daniel\
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
Democrats (liberals, whatever) have not won anything in ten years and more. If they/we are relieved/pleased for one day- I think that's okay.

The word you want is "effect". This message will self destruct in 10, 9, ...

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
mmmaestro007
Member Avatar
Middle Aged Carp
Larry
Nov 9 2006, 02:42 PM
This thread is a classic example of why giving democrats any power is a dangerous thing. Kenny means well, but he is so dangerously wrong that it is mind boggling. And his type of logic will increasingly be heard now that the idiots running the democrat party dig in.

A couple of other examples: Some are already running around talking about putting a 3 dollar per gallon tax on gasoline to fund alternative energy research.

What is it about the disease of liberalism that leaves you lefties so irrational and short sighted?

"Some are already running around talking about putting a 3 dollar per gallon tax on gasoline to fund alternative energy research.

What is it about the disease of liberalism that leaves you lefties so irrational and short sighted?"

there are some people on the planet who believe we burn too much fossil fuel and this will have a devastating affect on the environment and economy within the not too distant future!
"Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving pleasure to thousands, and all you can do is scratch it!"

Sir Thomas Beechem, conductor
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
kenny
Nov 8 2006, 09:59 PM
They want us out.

I don't believe that's true. A couple of days ago I listened to an extended interview with two PBS journalists (a channel not known for it's pro-Bush stance) who had just returned from Iraq. They both said that as much as the Iraqis didn't like the Americans being there, they certainly didn't want them to leave.

As far as the war being about revenge, or a battle between two monarchs, give me a break. Real life <> Hollywood.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Frank_W
Member Avatar
Resident Misanthrope
Kenny, you don't really believe this, right? I mean, you've posted this just to stir the pot, right?

That's got to be it.
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1