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| Ban on gay marriage ammendments; ....all pass except one | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 8 2006, 07:14 AM (356 Views) | |
| The 89th Key | Nov 8 2006, 07:14 AM Post #1 |
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Damn Arizona! ![]() The record for these gay marriage ammendments going into tonight was what...20 and 0? Now they are something like 27 and 1. Oh well...not a bad record.
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| LadyElton | Nov 8 2006, 10:13 AM Post #2 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Oh yeah. Bible ****ers won. Oh joy. And people wonder why I am thinking of suicide. Oh Christ, I'd give up everything I own..I would kill to change. Gives me an excuse to **** 5 months of sobriety. |
| Hilary aka LadyElton | |
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| kenny | Nov 8 2006, 10:15 AM Post #3 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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LE, take heart. Denying equality will eventually be seen for what it is, hate. Progress is slow. |
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| musicasacra | Nov 8 2006, 10:16 AM Post #4 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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did you see my note about Arizona in the other thread of the same subject? |
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| The 89th Key | Nov 8 2006, 12:50 PM Post #5 |
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No I didn't MS, but I'll look. |
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| musicasacra | Nov 8 2006, 12:58 PM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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there were ads running in Arizona that claimed (correctly or not, i don't know) that co-habiting heterosexual couples would have their legal rights impacted by the gay marriage ban, along with gay couples. those ads may have been an additional factor for voters. |
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| The 89th Key | Nov 8 2006, 01:13 PM Post #7 |
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I heard that some of those types of ads were also in virginia or whatever....who knows. |
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| Jolly | Nov 8 2006, 01:18 PM Post #8 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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People, don't look now, but the elections commisoner in Arizona said there are somewhere between 300-400,000 uncounted absentee and early election ballots for this measure. Current margin of defeat is approximately 30,000. Maybe we go 8/8 after all.... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| TomK | Nov 8 2006, 02:15 PM Post #9 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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The people have SPOKEN!!!! PS. I'm for civil unions for gays--so I'm not completely full of hate for gays.
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| John Jacob Jingoism Smith | Nov 8 2006, 03:13 PM Post #10 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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LE, I know how hard it must be. Please don't think the entire straight world is against you though. In the circle of my straight friends, I can't think of any who would deny gays the right. And in their own circle of friends, I think it's mostly the same. Not enough yet, I know, but don't think it will never happen. |
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Jingoism You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott | |
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| Mikhailoh | Nov 8 2006, 03:19 PM Post #11 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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It is not even true in all Conservative camps. In the very beginning of this dialogue, oh, maybe 10 years ago for my notice of it anyway, I had this vague feeling that somehow it was not a good thing. The more I thought and thought about it, the more I realized I could not come up with one good reason WHY it should not be allowed legally. Now I could not care less whether it is called a civil union or a marriage or whatever, because the people involved know what it is. And I have no issue with whether or not various religious groups accept it within their congregations. But legally, I think it shoud be allowed. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| sue | Nov 8 2006, 03:25 PM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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My world too, LE. It is legal here, and I don't know anyone who has a problem with it. Don't despair.
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| The 89th Key | Nov 8 2006, 04:23 PM Post #13 |
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Regardless of ones stance on the issue, IMO the first thing that needs to be understood in this debate on either side of the issue before it can move forward, is that it's not about hate in the slightest bit. Until those who think it is realize this, the debate isn't going to get any more productive. |
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| Mikhailoh | Nov 8 2006, 04:34 PM Post #14 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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That will never happen, 89th. It is much easier to demonize your opponents than to realize they have a point of view as well. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| John D'Oh | Nov 8 2006, 04:59 PM Post #15 |
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MAMIL
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It's not completely about hate, and those who oppose gay marriage are not necessarily homophobic, but let's not try and pretend that it isn't a factor. Here in loony-left Massachusetts I've been surprised and saddened by the kind of conversations I hear on a regular basis. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| The 89th Key | Nov 8 2006, 05:09 PM Post #16 |
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It's very true that some voted for the ammendments voted out of hate, sure. There are extremists all around, which is something that has been very clear the last couple years. However, I would think most people voted that way because: 1) They think marriage should be defined at some point...as 99.9% of us do. 2) They think the definition should be one man and one woman. Hate has nothing to do with it. |
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| John D'Oh | Nov 8 2006, 05:17 PM Post #17 |
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MAMIL
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I'm basing my opinion on a completely random sample of about 10 blokes down the canteen, at least 4 of whom have opined on 'queers getting married' on more than one occasion. I know this is completely un-statistical, and unrepresentative, and un-defendible on my part, but I knows what I saw, and 4/10 is a pretty bad statistic. I'm not going to use the word 'hate', but ignorant prejudice has a great deal to do with it where I eat my lunch. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Jolly | Nov 8 2006, 06:42 PM Post #18 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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I don't think any of us are. But many of us in the country do feel that marriage is one man/one women, and that is how society is best served. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Ben | Nov 8 2006, 06:58 PM Post #19 |
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Senior Carp
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Now was it the "one" or the "women" that was the typo?
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- Ben "Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington bennieloohoo@gmail.com Or you can just PM me.
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| Ben | Nov 8 2006, 07:02 PM Post #20 |
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Senior Carp
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I do not think it is so much hate in most cases - although that is not to say that this does not exist, on the contrary, it is a big problem - I think it is instead a total failure to understand the gay community on the most basic level and a selfish unwillingness to try to look at things from the perspective of the gay community. The Evangelical Christians who are voting for these amendments for the most part think that homosexuality is a disease that can be cured and they never once think about what it might be like to be on the other side of the issue. |
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- Ben "Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington bennieloohoo@gmail.com Or you can just PM me.
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| David Burton | Nov 8 2006, 08:58 PM Post #21 |
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Senior Carp
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It isn’t a disease that can be cured. In fact I’ve talked quite openly about it with many who consider it a kind of curse. It’s stupid that “civil union” with everything but the title isn’t good enough. It’s stuipid that some people get really angry about calling it “marriage.” But there it is. That’s all the gay community can get right now, and if you think the Evangelicals are bad wait until the Moslems take over. |
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| sue | Nov 8 2006, 09:06 PM Post #22 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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'Ignorant predudice' is spot on. Define, for yourself, what marriage means to you. Then have the grace to allow everyone else to do the same. What possible harm will it do anyone if two gay people choose to get married? |
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| The 89th Key | Nov 8 2006, 09:17 PM Post #23 |
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Almost everyone defines what marriage should be. Some stop at XX/XY, some stop at any two unrelated adults, some stop at any 3 adults, some stop at ANY adults, etc. Everyone defines marriage...and when the state defines who qualifies as married and the benefits that come along with it, and when the state asks people in a democratic referendum (like the state ballot measures on tuesday), people vote. Democracy wins. If the judicial system then overturns that democratic decision on the basis that it's unconstitutional, then do we have a judicial oligarchy? Maybe, maybe not. Then the legislation, who are elected by the people, can either remove those judges, live with the deicision, or ammend the constitution accordingly. It's one big cycle... |
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| Ben | Nov 8 2006, 09:23 PM Post #24 |
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Senior Carp
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The principles of America are rooted in the hope that the people of America are not idiots. Therefore your cycle should not take place. Unfortunately it is not too far from likely. |
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- Ben "Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington bennieloohoo@gmail.com Or you can just PM me.
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| sue | Nov 8 2006, 11:24 PM Post #25 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well maybe that cycle could be stopped, or taken in for a rehaul if everyone stopped and really sat themselves down to think about it. Maybe rather than worrying about the next state or nation wide vote, or what the latest poll says, individuals should think long and hard about just how devasting it really would be if the two guys around the corner got married. That would be a start. |
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4:33 PM Jul 10