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DOW CLOSES ABOVE 12,000 FOR FIRST TIME...
Topic Started: Oct 19 2006, 12:15 PM (711 Views)
Daniel\
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Fulla-Carp
Mikhailoh
Oct 19 2006, 08:11 PM
John D'Oh
Oct 19 2006, 04:28 PM
Riddle me this - Why is it that Clinton and the Democrats had nothing to do with their economic boom, but now we have the GOP to thank?

Riddle me this - The British economy has been way ahead of that in the US, with a leftish government. It's nice to see that you chaps have managed to catch up, but what took you so long?

:)

Tell me what Clinton did to bolster the economy, then tell me what Bush did. Therein lies the difference.

Clinton also inherited a huge, overblown and baseless tech boom. Which he also had naught to do with. Bush inherited an economy on the way down and the worst attack on US soil in history.


I agree with the sentiment expressed by John in this post.

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jon-nyc
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Mikhailoh
Oct 20 2006, 12:11 AM
Tell me what Clinton did to bolster the economy...

How about reducing and then eliminating the deficit, sending long-term interest rates to near historic lows? Doesn't that count?
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Ok, I'll give you that, Jon.. but it was done with expanded tax receipts from his economic luck, not from tough cuts in spending. There is still a big difference between what a president actually does during their terms and what happens during their terms.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
You cannot point to a single Clinton policy that reduced the deficit. His administration was projecting (with total acceptance) 200+ billion dollar deficits as far as the eye could see in '94. Then the Republicans took control of Congress and set out to balance the budget. Clinton and his minions fought them every inch of the way. In the end, it was more through economic growth than spending cuts that the budget was balanced but to say that Clinton had anything to do with it is laughable. He would have been just as happy to see those 200+ B deficits roll on to the end of his presidency and beyond.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Dave Spelvin
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Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
it was done with expanded tax receipts from his economic luck, not from tough cuts in spending

And Bush's great economy came from tough cuts in spending?

Quote:
 
Then the Republicans took control of Congress and set out to balance the budget. Clinton and his minions fought them every inch of the way.

This is precisely my recipe for fixing this country. Divided government. The deficit became a surplus under Clinton with a Republican congress. The deficit has exploded under Bush with a Republican congress. It is because the repubs and Clinton fought that good things happened. If all goes well, we'll get to see this tension again shortly.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Do you really think the Democrats are going to do anything but try to increase spending and taxes? This, of course, will lead to bigger deficits, not smaller. The deficit is going down right now. Your recipe looks more like a bomb to me.

It wasn't divided government that reduced the deficit in the '90s.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Dave Spelvin
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JBryan
Oct 20 2006, 06:55 AM
Do you really think the Democrats are going to do anything but try to increase spending and taxes? This, of course, will lead to bigger deficits, not smaller. The deficit is going down right now. Your recipe looks more like a bomb to me.

Why do you think the dems will increase spending when there's a republican in the White House? He'd learn to use a veto in a hurry if they tried. I trust neither party. I don't understand how you can trust the republicans given what they've done when alone in the candy store.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
JBryan
Oct 20 2006, 08:31 AM
Clinton and his minions

I'm afraid that as a liberal, Clinton was not permitted to have minions, as this is a term reserved for the right of the fence. Clinton's assistants were lapdogs and yes-men.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Dave Spelvin
Oct 20 2006, 09:59 AM
JBryan
Oct 20 2006, 06:55 AM
Do you really think the Democrats are going to do anything but try to increase spending and taxes? This, of course, will lead to bigger deficits, not smaller. The deficit is going down right now. Your recipe looks more like a bomb to me.

Why do you think the dems will increase spending when there's a republican in the White House? He'd learn to use a veto in a hurry if they tried. I trust neither party. I don't understand how you can trust the republicans given what they've done when alone in the candy store.

You think they won't attach spending and tax measures to vital legislation like defense appropriations? You don't think they will horse trade on everything the Administration wants? There is much Congress can do to get their agenda passed into law. These are co-equal branches after all.

I don't trust Republicans all that much but they just make me sick. The Democrats scare the hell out of me (as I have said before).
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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kentcouncil
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John D'Oh
Oct 20 2006, 10:08 AM
lapdogs and yes-men

lap-dances and semen?
It was a confusion of ideas between him and one of the lions he was hunting in Kenya that had caused A. B. Spottsworth to make the obituary column. He thought the lion was dead, and the lion thought it wasn't.

- P.G. Wodehouse
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Dave Spelvin
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JBryan
Oct 20 2006, 07:13 AM
Dave Spelvin
Oct 20 2006, 09:59 AM
JBryan
Oct 20 2006, 06:55 AM
Do you really think the Democrats are going to do anything but try to increase spending and taxes? This, of course, will lead to bigger deficits, not smaller. The deficit is going down right now. Your recipe looks more like a bomb to me.

Why do you think the dems will increase spending when there's a republican in the White House? He'd learn to use a veto in a hurry if they tried. I trust neither party. I don't understand how you can trust the republicans given what they've done when alone in the candy store.

You think they won't attach spending and tax measures to vital legislation like defense appropriations? You don't think they will horse trade on everything the Administration wants? There is much Congress can do to get their agenda passed into law. These are co-equal branches after all.

I don't trust Republicans all that much but they just make me sick. The Democrats scare the hell out of me (as I have said before).

If you reverse your feelings about repubs and dems, you've identified my feelings. I would appreciate it if at some point I felt that either party cared more about this country than about re-election. Until that day, I will spend my vote to keep neither party in complete power of the federal government.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Can I take from that you will be voting for a Republican for President two years from now if the Democrats take control of Congress. Conversely, does that mean that if a Democrat wins the Presidency in '08 you will then be voting for Republicans for Congress?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I think you have exactly that in the White House today, Dave. Now if we could get that going in Congress we'd have one heck of a government going.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Dave Spelvin
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Fulla-Carp
JBryan
Oct 20 2006, 07:26 AM
Can I take from that you will be voting for a Republican for President two years from now if the Democrats take control of Congress. Conversely, does that mean that if a Democrat wins the Presidency in '08 you will then be voting for Republicans for Congress?

I live in New York City. I doesn't matter who I vote for. For the most part, dems win, and Pataki and Bloomberg who, if you haven't noticed, are dems in all but party affiliation. Yes, I'm dodging your question. I don't believe I could bring myself to vote for a republican unless his name was Powell. Are there any more Rockefeller republicans? I'd vote for them.
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Dave Spelvin
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Mikhailoh
Oct 20 2006, 07:27 AM
I think you have exactly that in the White House today, Dave. Now if we could get that going in Congress we'd have one heck of a government going.

I'm not sure what you mean, but I think you're saying that Bush cares more about the country than his re-election. Surely, that's true, but only because he can't run again. I think he's a better politician than he is anything else, but I like my politicians to know about more than winning elections. For me, politics is the means to an end and I get the feeling that for him, it is the end.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
My impression is that your attachment to divided government will vanish under a Hillary Clinton Presidency.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Dave Spelvin
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JBryan
Oct 20 2006, 07:41 AM
My impression is that your attachment to divided government will vanish under a Hillary Clinton Presidency.

I will support a Constitutional amendment to make her queen, just to watch Bill O'Reilly's head explode.

She'll never be elected, notwithstanding the Barge's express wishes.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
JBryan
Oct 20 2006, 08:31 AM
You cannot point to a single Clinton policy that reduced the deficit. His administration was projecting (with total acceptance) 200+ billion dollar deficits as far as the eye could see in '94. Then the Republicans took control of Congress and set out to balance the budget. Clinton and his minions fought them every inch of the way. In the end, it was more through economic growth than spending cuts that the budget was balanced but to say that Clinton had anything to do with it is laughable. He would have been just as happy to see those 200+ B deficits roll on to the end of his presidency and beyond.

That simply isn't true, JB.


Read Woodward's 'The Agenda'. It tells about the internal fight within the administration. This in 94, before the GOP took congress. It was Rubin against Reich and everyone else. Rubin won.

That sparked the famous comment from James Carville - "If I'm reincarnated I'd like to come back as the bond market..."
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Oh, Woodward. The guy who has interviews with comatose people.

I don't know where you are going with this Jon but the Clinton Administration's fight against balancing the budget was quite public. I remember Alice Rivlin and Leon Paneta and all the other flacks lecturing the Republicans on how it couldn't be done and it just didn't matter anyway. Rubin was probably one of the best we have ever had at Treasury but he didn't balance the budget either.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Panetta was on the fiscal conservative side with Rubin, David Gergen - and even Greenspan, who had quite a bit of influence with the whitehouse. Their side won against the more traditional liberals - Begala, Stephanopolis, Reich, and Carville.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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