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| Nazi has no country | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 19 2006, 08:37 AM (891 Views) | |
| Klotz | Oct 19 2006, 11:23 AM Post #26 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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| JBryan | Oct 19 2006, 11:24 AM Post #27 |
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I am the grey one
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I had a friend who was in a Latvian division of the SS. He volunteered but it was mostly to help them kick the Russians out of Latvia. We need to make a distinction between SS and whether the individual was actually involved in war crimes. many were not although it would appear that this guy as a concentration camp guard was. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Frank_W | Oct 19 2006, 11:27 AM Post #28 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Thank you for this, Klotz. If this is truly the case, then my own attitude towards him is considerably kinder. At this point, I agree: Just leave him alone... |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| The 89th Key | Oct 19 2006, 11:31 AM Post #29 |
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LE...just FYI, I found this statement very ironic! ![]()
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| John D'Oh | Oct 19 2006, 11:36 AM Post #30 |
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MAMIL
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It's worth clarifying, the man Klotz was referring to isn't the same guy that's been caught here. Kurt Gerstein was clearly incredibly brave. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Klotz | Oct 19 2006, 11:37 AM Post #31 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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I'm affraid you did not understand me. I replied to "he would be shot" and I said that GERSTEIN, an SS officer did speak and was not affraid to be shot. I wasn't speaking about the concentration camp guard. Gerstein probably commited suicide or was killed by fellow officers. Read the article from the URL provided. |
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| Frank_W | Oct 19 2006, 11:38 AM Post #32 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Ah.... Sorry for the mix-up. Got it. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Klotz | Oct 19 2006, 11:40 AM Post #33 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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From:Latvian Nazis Resurgence of fascism in the former Soviet Baltic republics of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia has been growing over the past decade. Regretfully, these deplorable actions by the governments and local authorities of the three Baltic States attracted little attention from the international community. In September of 2003 a number of Latvians and foreign visitors attended the memorial ceremony for the Jewish-Latvian Holocaust victims in the Rumbula forest, where 25,000 Jews were massacred in late 1941 mostly by Latvian police and guards. Just a week later Latvian government unveiled another memorial – this one was dedicated to the memory of Latvian Waffen SS members. During the same month Latvia managed to pacify its small remaining Jewish population while at the same time making itself feel better about its history of collaborating with Nazi Germany. Two weeks - two memorials: one is to the Holocaust victims and the other one to the Holocaust makers. The SS memorial was unveiled in the Latvian town of Lestene. The event was attended by the country’s government, religious and military officials. Three military orchestras of the Latvian Defense Ministry provided musical background for commemorating 'accomplishments and sacrifices' of the SS and its Latvian division in the name of Führer and Fatherland. With the exception of a few Russian and Israeli newspapers the world media remained oblivious to these events and silent. Surviving members of the Latvian SS legion marched proudly in Lestene, their 'accomplishments' appreciated by their new government. Latvian SS exterminated tens of thousands of Jews, Slavs and fellow Latvians sixty years ago and today Latvian government considers the SS men war veterans, pays them military pensions, erects monuments in their name and celebrates their cause and bloody deeds with state-sponsored parades. Schoolchildren in Latvia learn that the SS heroically defended their country against Bolshevik hordes and sought an appropriate place for the Latvian uberman in the bright future of the Thousand Year Reich. Unable to accept the responsibility for its Nazi past Latvia is seeking to rewrite the bloody pages of its history. This is done quietly and gradually. The three military orchestras playing at the SS memorial ceremony in Latvia this September had to keep down their fortissimo so not to disturb the sleeping public opinion of the nations that sacrificed millions of lives to defeat the monster of fascism. Today Latvia is not just rewriting its own history but ours as well. We make this possible by ignoring the SS marching in Lestene; by trying hard not to notice the memorials to Nazi murderers popping up here and there in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia; by closing our ears so not to hear the SS legions marching in Riga and Tallinn. In 1946 the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg adjudged Waffen SS to be a criminal organization. Since 1997 thousands SS criminals living in the US, UK, Latvia and other countries collected a monthly military pension paid by Germany and by national governments, as is the case with Latvia. This revolting historical revisionism rearing its ugly head with our silent approval is an insult to the memories of millions who gave their lives to save ours. |
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| Jolly | Oct 19 2006, 11:55 AM Post #34 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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There is no such thing as unforgiveable sin. Which is why I think you wrote what you did... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| JBryan | Oct 19 2006, 11:55 AM Post #35 |
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I am the grey one
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From the same Wikipedia piece: In Estonia and Latvia, the majority of Waffen SS veterans were conscripts who were at least partly considered freedom fighters. In an April 13, 1950 message from the U.S. High Commission in Germany (HICOG), signed by General Frank McCloy to the Secretary of State, clarified the US position on the "Baltic Legions": they were not to be seen as "movements", "volunteer", or "SS". In short, they were not given the training, indoctrination, and induction normally given to SS members. Subsequently the US Displaced Persons Commission in September 1950 declared that The Baltic Waffen SS Units (Baltic Legions) are to be considered as separate and distinct in purpose, ideology, activities, and qualifications for membership from the German SS, and therefore the Commission holds them not to be a movement hostile to the Government of the United States. Still, much debate is continuing on this issue and because of general condamnation of Nazi regime across the globe, official statements of the position of Estonian and Latvian Waffen SS veterans remain ambiguous. The Latvian parliament Saeima declared "the day of the Legion" (16 March) as a national holiday, but under pressure from the European Union, reversed its decision in 2000. There were some terrible attrocities committed by members of the SS but not all members committed them. My friend was living legally and quite openly in the US right up until his death. He made no secret of his involvement with the SS and was not particularly proud of it although one could easily doubt his sincerity under the circumstances. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| AlbertaCrude | Oct 19 2006, 12:33 PM Post #36 |
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Bull-Carp
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My feeling is that if he were a pedophile or for that matter, a mafia capo we wouldn't think twice about throwing the book at him now for his criminal past and criminal association. That he used gross misrepresentation to hide his Nazi past and gain US citizenship is in itself fraud and sufficient cause to strip him of the privilege of being a US citizen. Likewise, it is well within the sovereign rights of Germany to deny him the right of return as an ethnic German as well as Hungary and Romania not to recognize his birthright or as a displaced person with a right of return. We should be mindful that the WWII consisted of at least four different wars. There was the war in the Pacific between the US and Japan. There was the war on the Chinese mainland between two opposing Chinese armies and the Japanese. There was the war in Western Europe and North Africa between the Anglo-American Alliance and the European Axis powers. But there was also a very different war in Central Europe and the USSR against Nazi Germany. The war in Central East European and the USSR against the Nazis were very different from the war we experienced and naively think we won in Western Europe. |
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| TomK | Oct 19 2006, 02:18 PM Post #37 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Interesting site--All Latvian Nazi's All the Time Klotz, Time to get a life, buddy. My grandparents died in concentration camps in WWII. My mother lived their deaths every day of her life. And I mean every day. You guys that were mildly touched by such things--race and religion and all of that need to get a life. OK? And further--how dare you--how dare you tell me that my responses to duch things are correct or incorrect on such things. You are crap--but, you aleady know that. |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 19 2006, 02:55 PM Post #38 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Tom, I'm not sure I understand where that post came from.. I understand the family history, but the 'how dare you' to klotz/us/everyone(?) I'm not sure I get.. is this the continuation of another thread? |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| TomK | Oct 19 2006, 03:25 PM Post #39 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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My Polish grandparents died in concentration camps in WWII. It's part of the long documented story of who I am--but lately, because I've opposed some Israeli policies, certain Jewish posters on this board have sent me in brown paper packages general pictures of non descript dead people placed in open graves at the hands of Nazis. How nice. Maybe my grandparents being buried in the pictures--who knows? bach would be the perpetrator of such actions, and Klotz his grinning associate. |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 19 2006, 03:46 PM Post #40 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I see. How awful. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Improviso | Oct 19 2006, 03:56 PM Post #41 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'm finding this a little hard to believe. Especially by those whom you named. Is this just a rant in general on your part or is this really true? Pretty strong stuff if it's not true. |
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Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism. We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. | |
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| TomK | Oct 19 2006, 04:44 PM Post #42 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yup-- Hay bach--you ever PM me pics of people being shoveled into graves by Nazis? Please RSVP! |
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| Improviso | Oct 19 2006, 05:49 PM Post #43 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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OK. I took *brown paper packages* to mean the pictures were snail-mailed to your home, hence my comment. |
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Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism. We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. | |
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| Horace | Oct 19 2006, 07:30 PM Post #44 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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of course realistically a huge percentage of the members of the german army would have done things, if given the order, which would have constituted war crimes. If we also admit that the german army was probably a representatvie sample of germans of the time, and we take the massive leap of faith that maybe just maybe germans don't have a genetic defect which makes them evil bloodthirsty subhumans... then we should probably admit that these were basically normal people who lived in abnormal circumstances. The same sort of people we see around us every day, except reared in a different time, in a different society. If anybody wants to think to themselves, which of the people they see every day might have been a willing member of the SS, commiting warcrimes without remorse, maybe they could start with those of us who insist on seeing this issue in a very black and white "this man is evil and must be punished" sort of way. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| uevA | Oct 19 2006, 07:34 PM Post #45 |
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Newbie
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Horace, may I comment on your beautiful sense of structure! Ah, to omit the paragraph! What subtle genius your humble master embarks upon us! What jest, what trivia! I bask in your sunlight, may your glory shine forth dear sir! |
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| JBryan | Oct 19 2006, 07:39 PM Post #46 |
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I am the grey one
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It was a well written and thoughtful post. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 19 2006, 07:49 PM Post #47 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Moral standards are very easy to talk about, but not so easy to adhere to when your choice is do what you are told or get shot. Or hanged. Or worse. Having the business end of a gun in one's face tends to make one quite cooperative, as opposed to the wisecracking bravado one sees in movies. When it comes down to you or the other guy, it will almost always be the other guy. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| ivorythumper | Oct 19 2006, 07:51 PM Post #48 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Indeed. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Radu | Oct 19 2006, 11:52 PM Post #49 |
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Senior Carp
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I wouldn't waste my time on you. You are very sick. You make this forum stink. And frankly, I can't (and I don't have to) stand this stench. To quote JON-NYC: "He [TomK] hasn't been shunned by any forum, rather, he's been shunned by certain people at both fora. Mostly due to racist and anti-semitic comments, posting pages from Stormfront, etc." |
![]() ------------------------------------------------------------ "Whenever I hear of culture... I release the safety-catch of my Browning!" The modern media has made cretins out of so many people that they're not interested in reality any more, unless it's reality TV (Jean D'eaux) | |
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| Radu | Oct 20 2006, 01:48 AM Post #50 |
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Senior Carp
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Mildly touched ? Do you know where I was born ? What happened to my grand parents ? What persecutions my parents suffered ? No , you don't ! So shut up your filthy mouth ! |
![]() ------------------------------------------------------------ "Whenever I hear of culture... I release the safety-catch of my Browning!" The modern media has made cretins out of so many people that they're not interested in reality any more, unless it's reality TV (Jean D'eaux) | |
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