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| Nazi has no country | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 19 2006, 08:37 AM (888 Views) | |
| CrashTest | Oct 19 2006, 08:37 AM Post #1 |
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Pisa-Carp
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/18/nazi.freed.ap/index.html I think that's sad. The man was 16 when he was forced to join the German Army - he lived a good life in America, and now all of this persecution. What did he do wrong? Did he really have a choice to not join the Nazi party? I think some people who want some "revenge" for what happened always end up taking it too far. |
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| LadyElton | Oct 19 2006, 08:41 AM Post #2 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I think they should just let him spend the remainder of his days with his family. He's 81 years old and in bad health. As much as I hate bigots, I do think the guy should be allowed to live the rest of his days in peace. He will have to meet his maker someday then he will or won't be punished. |
| Hilary aka LadyElton | |
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| CrashTest | Oct 19 2006, 08:44 AM Post #3 |
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Pisa-Carp
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How can you assume he is a bigot just because he was a Nazi guard? You know, being forced to be a guard and actively believing in the idealogy are two different things. It is unfair to label him as such - there is no evidence he was one in his life after Germany. The Pope was in the Hitler Youth group too. But we understand why, correct? |
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| LadyElton | Oct 19 2006, 08:59 AM Post #4 |
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Fulla-Carp
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True dat. I dunno if he believes in the Nazi idealogy. Maybe he did at one time, but has since changed his views. Regardless, let the guy live in peace. |
| Hilary aka LadyElton | |
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| John D'Oh | Oct 19 2006, 09:03 AM Post #5 |
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MAMIL
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It's worth noting he didn't just join the German army, he was a concentration camp guard in the Waffen SS, which wasn't the same thing at all. He also lied about it when he came to the US. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Frank_W | Oct 19 2006, 09:09 AM Post #6 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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You're right, John. That is quite different. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| CrashTest | Oct 19 2006, 09:09 AM Post #7 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Obviously lying about it was just to protect himself from labels. Sure, he was a guard there. Does he have to suffer for it all this time now? If he had some more direct involvement, like actually killing people - I could understand. I believe that he was never convicted of any war crimes. |
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| Frank_W | Oct 19 2006, 09:19 AM Post #8 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Never convicted... Could it have been because he LIED?? |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| CrashTest | Oct 19 2006, 09:24 AM Post #9 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Do you think everyone who WAS convicted told the truth? No way. There has to be evidence. Innocent until proven guilty. We cannot just assume he had done something wrong because of the position he was in. Many good people were in the same position - or were Germans just inherently evil? |
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| John D'Oh | Oct 19 2006, 09:34 AM Post #10 |
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MAMIL
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As far as I know, you didn't have to join the Waffen SS. For the most part, the regular German army did not take part in atrocities in the same way that this bunch did. At Nuremberg they were considered to be a criminal organisation. A bit of history: Waffen SS |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| lb1 | Oct 19 2006, 09:43 AM Post #11 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Read what you guys are saying, you are making all kinds of excuses for this guy. He was a Waffen SS, these people were not human and they do not change their ideology. A person is innocent until found guilty, and this guy was found guilty. I worked at a company in the 70’s and there was a guy working there that was a guard in a German concentration camp during WWII. There was also a Pole working there that was a prisoner in the same camp. I heard the German tell the Pole one day that he wished the war had lasted another 30 days so he could have killed his Pollok a** . This was 30 years after the war ended and the German wasn’t even Waffen SS. lb |
| My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09 | |
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| Frank_W | Oct 19 2006, 09:45 AM Post #12 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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I'm surprised the Pole didn't respond in kind, with lethal force. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| lb1 | Oct 19 2006, 09:46 AM Post #13 |
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Fulla-Carp
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But he was convicted, in the U.S. courts, that was why he was supposed to be deported. lb |
| My position is simple: you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and slung mud on an issue where none was deserved. Quirt 03/08/09 | |
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| John D'Oh | Oct 19 2006, 09:59 AM Post #14 |
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MAMIL
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He broke the law, he should be deported. If I lied about such a serious issue on my immigration application and got caught, I would expect no less. He was a concentration camp guard, FFS! He's lucky not to have been shot. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| phykell | Oct 19 2006, 10:25 AM Post #15 |
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Senior Carp
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Crash, this is serious stuff. Can I suggest that you do some reading about the subject. There are already too many people who have made too many excuses for this sort of person and FWIW, I don't believe his age should have anything to do with it, though I would probably consider his family's feelings on the subject if it were up to me, but as far as I can tell, justice owes him no favours. |
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The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated. - Ghandhi Evil cannot be conquered in the world. It can only be resisted within oneself. Remember, bones heal and chicks dig scars | |
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| ivorythumper | Oct 19 2006, 10:26 AM Post #16 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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It's interesting that this is the one thing that is the unforgivable sin. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Klaus | Oct 19 2006, 10:28 AM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You were not "forced" to become a concentration camp guard in Nazi Germany. There are no "innocents" among them. I don't have any compassion with these guys whatsoever, even if it is now 60 years ago. They don't deserve it. |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 19 2006, 10:38 AM Post #18 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I'm afraid that appears not to be true, Klaus: "After humble beginnings as a protection unit for the NSDAP leadership, the Waffen-SS eventually grew into a force of thirty-eight combat divisions comprising over 950,000 men, and including a number of elite units. In the Nuremberg Trials, the Waffen-SS was condemned as part of a criminal organisation due to their involvement with the National Socialist Party (NSDAP), and Waffen-SS veterans were denied many of the rights afforded other German combat veterans who had served in the Heer, Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine. Conscripts, however, were exempted from that judgment, as many of them were forced to join the organisation by German authorities. . . Towards the end of 1943, it became apparent that numbers of volunteer recruits were inadequate to meet the needs of the German military, so conscription was introduced." Many of the conscripts were foreign nationals like Poles, *Estonians* and the like. It is not entirely clear from what I found that the conscripts were Germans. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| LadyElton | Oct 19 2006, 10:45 AM Post #19 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I am only considering his family's feelings. I don't know if they were involved with the Nazi party or the Waffen SS. I can never forget or forgive the Nazis for what happened during the Holocaust and WWII. It's interesting. I was reading about Himmler in Wikipedia and it says he has family that is still living. I wonder what it is like for them to know they have such an evil person in their family. His niece married a Jewish Holocaust survivor. A good point was brought up that people weren't forced into the SS, they joined. Whether this guy took part in any atrocities at the camp, I don't know. But he is guilty by association. We do have to remember that. The real justice he will face will be after he dies and has to face God on what he was a part of. |
| Hilary aka LadyElton | |
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| Frank_W | Oct 19 2006, 10:50 AM Post #20 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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Even if he didn't take part in any active murders, he still stood by and watched it happen. He still saw fellow human beings wasting away with starvation, day after day, and did nothing. |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| John D'Oh | Oct 19 2006, 10:55 AM Post #21 |
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MAMIL
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I don't think it's necessarily an unforgiveable sin. Werner von Braun definitely had links to the Nazi regime, and to the deaths of slave workers, but for some reason the USA has since named streets in his honour. In his case it wasn't who he knew, but what he knew. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 19 2006, 11:03 AM Post #22 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I'm no defender of Nazis, but this guy was my Dad's age.. 16-17.. at an absolutely insane time in Europe. He's been in hiding since 1987. Enough. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| LadyElton | Oct 19 2006, 11:05 AM Post #23 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I can't fathom sitting by and watching other human beings being tortured, shot, gassed and starved, but not doing anything to stop it. Not that there was much he could have done. They would have shot him too if he spoke up. |
| Hilary aka LadyElton | |
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| Frank_W | Oct 19 2006, 11:12 AM Post #24 |
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Resident Misanthrope
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I would rather be shot. I also agree with Mik. Screw it... The best punishment is to let this feeble old bastard just die. (and hope that it's something excrutiating and slow) |
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Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin." Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!" | |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 19 2006, 11:19 AM Post #25 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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There is little or nothing we can do to him. If there is a judgement awaiting him, he'll have to deal with that when the time comes. If you think about it, whether he volunteered or was consripted, the question you have to ask is did he have any idea at all what he was getting into, and, once in, what could he do? He was awfully young to have this be the sum total of his life's worth. I suspect his memories of what he saw and perhaps had to participate in have been a perpetual punishment for 63 years. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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